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It's been said that the wars of the 21st century may well be fought over water. The Earth's population
has more than doubled over the last 50 years and the demand for fresh water -- to drink
and to grow food -- has surged along with it. But sources of water like rainfall, rivers,
streams, reservoirs, certainly haven't doubled. So where is all that extra water coming from?
More and more, it's being pumped out of the ground.
Water experts say groundwater is like a savings account -- something you draw on in times
of need. But savings accounts need to be replenished, and there is new evidence that so much water
is being taken out, much of the world is in danger of a groundwater overdraft.
California is entering its fourth year of a record-breaking drought. Last year was the
driest since the state started keeping records more than a hundred years ago. And yet, pay
a visit to California's Central Valley and out of that parched land you'll see acre upon
acre of corn, almond trees, pomegranates, tomatoes, grapes. And what makes them all
possible: water. Where do you get water in a drought? You take it out of the savings
account: groundwater.
[Jay Famiglietti: When we talk about surface water, we're talking about lakes and rivers.
And when we're talking about groundwater, we're really talking about water below the
water table.]
Jay Famiglietti, an Earth sciences professor at the University of California, Irvine, is
a leading expert on groundwater.
Jay Famiglietti: It's like a sponge. It's like an underground sponge.
He's talking about the aquifers where groundwater is stored -- layers of soil and rock, as he
showed us in this simple graphic, that are saturated with water and can be drilled into,
like the three wells shown here.
Lesley Stahl: You can actually pump it out of the crevices?
Jay Famiglietti: Imagine like trying to put a straw into a sponge. You can actually suck
water right out of a sponge. It's a very similar process.
Sucking the water out of those aquifers is big business these days in the Central Valley.
Well driller Steve Arthur is a very busy man.
Steve Arthur: All the farmers, they don't have no surface water. They've got to keep
these crops alive. The only way to do that is to drill wells, pump the water from the
ground.
Lesley Stahl: So it's either drill or go out of business?
Steve Arthur: Yes.
So there's something of a groundwater rush going on here. Arthur's seven rigs are in
constant use and his waiting list is well over a year. And because some wells here are
running dry, he's having to drill twice as deep as he did just a year or two ago. This
well will cost the farmer a quarter of a million dollars, and go down 1,200 feet -- about the
height of the Empire State Building.
Lesley Stahl: Are you and are the farmers worried that by going that deep you are depleting
the ground water?
Steve Arthur: Well, yes, we are depleting it. But on the other hand, what choice do
you have? This is the most fertile valley in the world. You can grow anything you want
here. If we don't have water to grow something, it's going to be a desert.
He said many farmers think the problem is cyclical and that once the drought ends, things
will be okay.
Lesley Stahl: Now when they take water out and it rains...
Jay Famiglietti: Yes.
Lesley Stahl: ...doesn't the water go back down there?
Jay Famiglietti: These aquifers near the surface, they can sometimes be replenished very quickly.
If we're talking about a deeper aquifer, that could take tens or hundreds of years to recharge.
Figuring out how much is being depleted from those aquifers deep underground isn't easy.
Hydrologist Claudia Faunt took us to what looked like someone's backyard shed, where
she and her colleagues at the U.S. Geological Survey monitor groundwater levels in the Central
Valley the way they always have -- by dropping a sensor down a monitoring well.
Lesley Stahl: So this is a well.
Claudia Faunt: This is a well. So we have a tape here that has a sensor on the end.
Lesley Stahl: Oh, let me see.
The Geological Survey has 20,000 wells like this across the country.
Lesley Stahl: It's a tape measure.
Claudia Faunt: It's a tape measure.
Lesley Stahl: How will you know when it hits water?
Claudia Faunt: It's going to beep.
By comparing measurements from different wells over time, they get the best picture they
can of where groundwater levels stand. She unspooled and unspooled, until finally...
[Beep]
Lesley Stahl: Oh.
It startled me, as did the result: a five-foot drop in just one month.
Claudia Faunt: Right now, we're reaching water levels that are at historic lows, they're
like...
Lesley Stahl: Historic lows?
Claudia Faunt: Right. At this site, water levels have dropped about 200 feet in the
last few years.
Gathering data from holes in the ground like this has been the only way to get a handle
on groundwater depletion. That is, until 2002, and the launch of an experimental NASA satellite
called GRACE.
Lesley Stahl: What does GRACE stand for?
Mike Watkins: So GRACE stands for gravity recovery and climate experiment.
Mike Watkins is head of the Science Division at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena.
He was the mission manager for the latest Mars rover mission and he is the project scientist
for GRACE.
Mike Watkins: So the way GRACE works is it's two satellites.
Lesley Stahl: Two?
Mike Watkins: They're actually measuring each other's orbit very, very accurately.
What affects that orbit is gravity.
Mike Watkins: As the first one comes up on some extra mass, an area of higher gravity,
it gets pulled away...
Lesley Stahl: It goes faster.
Mike Watkins: ...from the second spacecraft.
And that's where water comes in. Since water has mass, it affects the pull of gravity,
so after the first GRACE satellite approaches an area that's had lots of heavy rain for
example, and is pulled ahead, the second one gets there, feels the pull and catches up.
The instruments are constantly measuring the distance between the two.
Mike Watkins: Their changes in separation, their changes in their orbit are a little
different this month than last month because water moved around and it changed the gravity
field just enough.
So GRACE can tell whether an area has gained water weight or lost it.
Lesley Stahl: So GRACE is like a big scale in the sky?
Mike Watkins: Absolutely.
GRACE can also tell how much water an area has gained or lost. Scientists can then subtract
out the amount of rain and snowfall there, and what's left are the changes in groundwater.
Lesley Stahl: It's kind of brilliant to think that a satellite in the sky is measuring groundwater.
Mike Watkins: It is fantastic.
Jay Famiglietti: I thought it was complete nonsense. There's no way we can see groundwater
from space.
Jay Famiglietti started out a skeptic, but that was before he began analyzing the data
GRACE sent back. The first place he looked was India. He showed us a time-lapse animation
of the changes GRACE detected there over the last 12 years. Note the dates on the lower
right. The redder it gets, the greater the loss of water.
Lesley Stahl: Oh, look at that.
He calculated that more than half the loss was due to groundwater depletion.
Jay Famiglietti: And this is a huge agricultural region.
Lesley Stahl: Have they been doing the same kind of pumping...
Jay Famiglietti: Yes.
Lesley Stahl: ...that we're seeing in California?
Jay Famiglietti: Yes.
Lesley Stahl: It got so dark red.
Jay Famiglietti: Yeah, that's bad.
His India findings were published in the journal "Nature." But as he showed us, India wasn't
the only red spot on the GRACE map.
Jay Famiglietti: This is right outside Beijing, Bangladesh and then across southern Asia.
He noticed a pattern.
Jay Famiglietti: They are almost exclusively located over the major aquifers of the world.
And those are also our big food-producing regions. So we're talking about groundwater
depletion in the aquifers that supply irrigation water to grow the world's food.
If that isn't worrisome enough, some of those aquifer systems are in volatile regions, for
instance this one that is shared by Syria, Iraq, Iran and Turkey.
Jay Famiglietti: Turkey's built a bunch of dams. Stored a bunch of water upstream. That
forces the downstream neighbors to use more groundwater and the groundwater's being depleted.
Lesley Stahl: Oh my.
Jay Famiglietti: We're seeing this water loss spread literally right across Iran, Iraq and
into Syria and down.
Lesley Stahl: It's progressive.
Famiglietti, who's now moved to the jet propulsion lab to work on GRACE, has started traveling
around the world, trying to alert governments and academics to the problem, and he isn't
the only one who's worried.
A 2012 report from the director of National Intelligence warned that within 10 years "many
countries important to the United States will experience water problems ... that will risk
instability and state failure..." and cited the possible "use of water as a weapon or
to further terrorist objectives."
Lesley Stahl: Water is the new oil.
Jay Famiglietti: It's true. It's headed in that direction.
And what about our own food-producing regions, like California's Central Valley, which produces
25 percent of the nation's food. What is GRACE telling us there?
Lesley Stahl: 2008.
Jay Famiglietti: Right.
Lesley Stahl: '09.
Jay Famiglietti: And now things are going to start to get very red.
Lesley Stahl: 2010.
GRACE is confirming what the geological survey well measures have shown, but giving a broader
and more frightening picture, since it shows that the rainy years are not making up for
the losses.
Lesley Stahl: '14. Dark red.
Lesley Stahl: That's alarming.
Jay Famiglietti: It should be.
So much groundwater has been pumped out here that the geological survey says it's causing
another problem: parts of the valley are literally sinking. It's called subsidence.
Claudia Faunt: So the ground basically collapses or compresses down and the land sinks.
Lesley Stahl: The land is sinking down.
She said at this spot, the ground is dropping several inches a year.
Claudia Faunt: And north of here, it's more like a foot per year.
Lesley Stahl: That sounds like a lot, a foot a year.
Claudia Faunt: It's some of the fastest rates we have ever seen in the valley, and in the
world.
She says it's caused damage to infrastructure: buckles in canals and sinking bridges. Here
the land has sunk six feet. It used to be level with the top of this concrete slab.
Lesley Stahl: And this is because of the pumping of the groundwater?
Claudia Faunt: Yes.
Lesley Stahl: Is there any limit on a farmer, as to how much he can actually take out of
this groundwater?
Claudia Faunt: Not right now in the state of California.
Lesley Stahl: None?
Claudia Faunt: As long as you put it to a beneficial use, you can take as much as you
want.
But what's beneficial to you may not be beneficial to your neighbor.
Lesley Stahl: When you dig a well like this, are you taking water from the next farm?
Steve Arthur: I would say yeah. We're taking water from everybody.
Lesley Stahl: Well, is that neighbor going to be unhappy?
Steve Arthur: No. Everybody knows that there's a water problem. Everybody knows you got to
drill deeper, deeper. And it's funny you say that because we're actually going to drill
a well for that farmer next door also.
Making things worse, farmers have actually been planting what are known as "thirsty"
crops. We saw orchard after orchard of almond trees. Almonds draw big profits, but they
need water all year long, and farmers can never let fields go fallow, or the trees will
die.
But with all the water depletion here, we did find one place that is pumping water back
into its aquifer.
Lesley Stahl: Look, it really looks ickier up close.
We took a ride with Mike Markus, general manager of the Orange County Water District and a
program some call "toilet to tap." They take 96-million gallons a day of treated wastewater
from a county sanitation plant -- and yes, that includes sewage -- and in effect, recycle
it. He says in 45 minutes, this sewage water will be drinkable.
Mike Markus: You'll love it.
Lesley Stahl: You think I'm going to drink that water?
Mike Markus: Yes, you will.
They put the wastewater through an elaborate three-step process: suck it through microscopic
filters, force it through membranes, blast it with UV light. By the end, Markus insists
it's purer than the water we drink. But it doesn't go straight to the tap. They send
it to this basin and then use it to replenish the groundwater.
Jay Famiglietti: It's amazing. Because of recycling of sewage water, they've been able
to arrest that decline in the groundwater.
Lesley Stahl: All right. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it.
All that was left was to try it. To tell the truth, it wasn't bad.
Lesley Stahl: I can't believe how brave I am. Forty-five minutes ago, this was sewer
water.
Mike Markus: And now, it's drinkable.
He says it's a great model for big cities around the country. But it's not the answer
for areas like the Central Valley, which is sparsely populated and therefore doesn't produce
enough waste. So at least for now, it's continuing withdrawals from that savings account.
Lesley Stahl: Will there be a time when there is zero water in the aquifer for people in
California?
Jay Famiglietti: Unless we take action, yes.
California has just taken action -- enacted a law that for the first time takes steps
toward regulating groundwater. But it could take 25 years to fully implement.
At the heart of Pope Francis' revolution in the Catholic Church is a shy Franciscan friar,
the pope's closest American advisor, Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley. The pope has appointed
him president of the Church's crucial new commission to combat child abuse and named
him a member of the Council of Cardinals, the pope's small "kitchen cabinet" charged
with helping redraw the way the church is governed.
Soft-spoken and unassuming, he is usually dressed in the brown habit of his Capuchin
Franciscan order and not in a Cardinal's red robes. He goes by "Cardinal Se¨¢n." And
like Pope Francis, he is more inclined to conversation than condemnation. He commutes
to Rome from his day job as archbishop of Boston to help Francis remake an ancient institution.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: It's a very different world now because of his style.
Part of that style includes the pope's reliance on advisors like Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley.
O'Malley not only works closely with the pope, but stays with him at the Vatican guesthouse
when he comes to Rome on business.
Norah O'Donnell: When you come here to Rome, you stay at the Domus Sanctae Marthae, which
is just right over there.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Yes, ordinarily. Yeah.
Norah O'Donnell: That means you're roommates with the pope.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Well, yes, you see him at all the meals. And very often will
go and celebrate mass with him in the morning. And we have our meetings right there.
Cardinal O'Malley and then-Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio of Buenos Aires became fast friends
when the Boston archbishop visited Argentina on church business in 2010. If you want to
understand Pope Francis, you'd do well to look at Cardinal O'Malley.
Norah O'Donnell: You knew him before. I mean, did you know that he would be this kind of
a leader?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: I knew that he would be different. I am delighted that he
is beyond my expectations.
Both share the same outlook -- open, non-judgmental, given to simple living, and not afraid to
consider change.
One change is the pope's recognition that child abuse is a church-wide problem that
can no longer be ignored or covered up by bishops. O'Malley has more experience than
any bishop in the church when it comes to cleaning up child abuse. And Pope Francis
turned to him to lead a new child protection commission for the entire church.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Well, it's something that I brought to the Commission of Cardinals
and we've talked about it. And the cardinals were very, very supportive. And the Holy Father,
he's a great listener
[INSERT EXTRA: How the abuse crisis has damaged the church]
Norah O'Donnell: Has the Vatican resisted it in the past?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: I think even here, particularly in the past, there was
the feeling that this was an American problem.
Norah O'Donnell: But is there a recognition inside the Vatican that this is intolerable.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Certainly, the Holy Father is very, very aware of that and
very committed to zero tolerance and to responding in a proper way to this phenomenon of child abuse.
Despite his office and influence in Rome, Cardinal O'Malley is a modest man, reluctant
to put himself forward. He is humble, a true Franciscan, who would rather be addressed
as "Cardinal Se¨¢n," than "your Eminence." It took more than a year to convince him to
agree to an interview. But, he is so approachable you can talk with him about nearly anything.
Norah O'Donnell: Now, your shoes look a lot more comfortable than mine.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Well, 50 years of wearing sandals.
Norah O'Donnell: Well, do you ever have to wear closed-toe shoes?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Well, when I'm disguised as a cardinal.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Which isn't very often.
His reputation for cleaning up the church began when he was installed as bishop of Fall
River, Massachusetts, where O'Malley inherited one of the most notorious child abuse cases
in history. Instead of lawyering up, O'Malley began reaching out directly to victims, settling
cases and acting as a pastor, not a CEO. His success led to a transfer to Palm Beach, where
the previous two bishops resigned after accusations of abuse. Then, in 2002, the Vatican sent
him to Boston.
[INSERT EXTRA: Becoming Archbishop of Boston]
Norah O'Donnell: Were you worried?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Yes. Terrified.
Terrified because the Archdiocese of Boston, the onetime symbol of American Catholicism
was dissolving, thanks to what was then the biggest sex abuse scandal in church history.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: There were a thousand lawsuits against us. The seminary
was empty. As I say such anger, disappointment, upset on the part of the people.
Norah O'Donnell: This was a pretty tough assignment?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: It was -- somebody described it as a fixer-upper.
And he began fixing it up on his first day on the job 11 years ago by doing something
bishops seldom do: admitting what had happened and apologizing for it.
[Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: At the beginning of this installation ceremony, I again ask
forgiveness for all the harm done to young people by clergy, religious and hierarchy.]
Se¨¢n O'Malley set a new tone in Boston. The first thing he did was sell the palatial
archbishop's residence and the 28 sprawling acres it sat on.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Well the archbishop's residence was more house than I needed.
Norah O'Donnell: Did you realize how big an impact it would have, that decision?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Well, I knew it would have an economic impact on the diocese.
And at the time I was very grateful that we had this mansion to unload and because we
sold it for over 100 million dollars.
O'Malley moved into the modest cathedral rectory. He has a deep devotion to working with the
poor, particularly immigrants. And is a prominent voice -- in any of eight languages -- in the
Catholic Church's call for immigration reform. Earlier this year he led a mass at the border
wall in Nogales, Arizona, even distributing communion through the fence to call attention
to the problem and the church's position on reform. The pope, who has been a strong voice
for immigrant rights, called it "a powerful picture."
But it's O'Malley's work to reform the church on child abuse where he has made the biggest
impact.
Norah O'Donnell: For many people outside the church and inside the church, the biggest
scandal isn't the predators, it's the bishops. The bishops who protected them and lied about
them and moved them from parish to parish. And many of these predators have been prosecuted.
But the bishops have not. Why is that?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: One of the first things that came up is the importance of accountability.
And we're looking at how the church could have protocols, how to respond when a bishop
has not been responsible for the protection of children in his diocese.
Norah O'Donnell: I want to ask you about Robert Finn, who is the bishop of Kansas City/St.
Joseph and, as you know, he pleaded guilty to a criminal misdemeanor for not reporting
one of his priests to authorities. Bishop Finn wouldn't be able to teach Sunday school
in Boston.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: That's right.
Norah O'Donnell: How is that zero tolerance...
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Well...
Norah O'Donnell: ...that he's still in place? What does it say to Catholics?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Well, it's a question that the Holy See needs to address
urgently.
Norah O'Donnell: And there's a recognition?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: There's a recognition of that.
Norah O'Donnell: From Pope Francis?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: From Pope Francis.
[INSERT OT: Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley's careful candor]
The cardinal's careful candor isn't limited to the church's mishandling of abuse. Take
the Vatican doctrine office's crackdown on American nuns for focusing more on social
justice than issues like abortion and contraception -- placing the nuns under the supervision
of three bishops.
Norah O'Donnell: It looked like a crackdown from men at the Vatican on...
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: A disaster.
Norah O'Donnell: A disaster?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Disaster.
Norah O'Donnell: Should there be more women in positions of power in the Curia?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Yes. I think there should be. And hopefully, there will
be.
Norah O'Donnell: When?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Well, I can't tell you what time, but hopefully soon, you
know.
So far, there is little in the way of concrete change, but Cardinal O'Malley spends about
one week every other month in Rome, otherwise he and the pope stay in contact using a technology
that seems almost as dated as illuminated manuscripts.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Usually the, we fax.
Norah O'Donnell: Really?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Yes.
Norah O'Donnell: You fax with the pope?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Yes.
Norah O'Donnell: People still communicate by fax?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Still communicate by fax.
Norah O'Donnell: Like, with letters or...
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Uh-huh.
Norah O'Donnell: Really?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Oh. Very quick and efficient. And a little more private than...
Norah O'Donnell: Most people think...
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Safer.
Norah O'Donnell: Oh, really?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Uh-huh.
Norah O'Donnell: Most people think texting is quicker than faxing.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Well, the pope and I aren't about texting.
His choice of communication technology is not the only thing conservative about him.
Church traditionalists accuse him of being a closet liberal for participating in ecumenical
services and presiding at the funeral of abortion rights supporter Ted Kennedy. But the cardinal
is a hard-liner on Catholic doctrine. Like Pope Francis, he upholds traditional positions
on abortion, gay marriage, birth control and women's ordination.
[INSERT EXTRA: Presiding at Senator Edward Kennedy's funeral]
Norah O'Donnell: The church says it's not open to the discussion about ordaining women.
Why not?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Not everyone needs to be ordained to have an important
role in the life of the church. Women run the Catholic charities, the Catholic schools,
the development office for the archdiocese.
Norah O'Donnell: Some would say women do a lot of the work but have very little power.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Well "power" is not a word that we like to use in the church.
It's more service.
Norah O'Donnell: But they can't preach. They can't administer the sacraments.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Well...
Norah O'Donnell: I mean, some women feel like they're second class Catholics because they
can't do those things that are very important.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Well, they, but they're, they have other very important roles
that, you know, a priest cannot be a mother, either. The tradition of the church is that
we have always ordained men. And that the priesthood reflects the incarnation of Christ,
who in his humanity is a man.
Norah O'Donnell: But in spite of that, does the exclusion of women seem at all immoral?
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Well, Christ would never ask us to do something immoral.
And I know that women in...
Norah O'Donnell: The sense of equality. I mean, just the sense of sort of the fairness
of it, you know. You wouldn't exclude someone based on race. But yet you do exclude people
based on gender.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: Well, it's a matter of vocation. And what God has given
to us. And this is, you know, if I were founding a church, you know, I'd love to have women
priests. But Christ founded it and what he he has given us is something different.
But God is not afraid of change, as Pope Francis has told his bishops. And Cardinal O'Malley
is thrilled with his old friend.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: I always had admiration for him but to see how he has made
this extraordinary impact on the church is so gratifying.
Norah O'Donnell: And will change the future of this church.
Cardinal Se¨¢n O'Malley: There's no doubt.
Mandy Patinkin may not be a household name, but he is one of the most versatile performers
we've ever met. He is a classically trained but barely restrained stage actor. A no-holds-barred
concert singer and a scene-stealing star of the big and small screens. For four decades,
Mandy has put everything he has into every role he's played. But a funny thing happened
along the way to stardom. Again and again, Mandy's career has unraveled at the hands
of an unlikely villain: himself. Now at 61, his raw talent has carried him to the top
again, with his portrayal of a CIA spy chief in "Homeland," the critically-acclaimed drama
airing on CBS' sister network, Showtime.
Mandy Patinkin: This is our point of view. So it's what we're seeing.
We met him at this outdoor location, in of all places, Cape Town, where two streets have
been transformed into a remote town in Pakistan. The show came to South Africa because of the
light, the ethnic diversity of the extras and primarily because of the tax breaks.
Mandy Patinkin: So I'm going to give you a little tour.
They even relocated the entire "Homeland" soundstage here. Mandy, who plays spy Saul
Berenson, was happy to show us around, at breakneck speed.
Mandy Patinkin: This is the Hall of Presidents...
Bob Simon: Does Saul walk this fast?
Mandy Patinkin: Yes he does.
For the uninitiated, "Homeland" is Hollywood's depiction of the 14-year clandestine war between
the CIA and Islamic terrorists. Patinkin's character, a former top CIA official, is the
moral center of a messy, complicated world, where spies spin webs of deceit in a struggle
most of us never see.
Mandy Patinkin: On occasion, a well-constructed drama, can do what no reality or news program
can do, what Shakespeare does brilliantly, is it can show both sides' opinions.
[Haqqani: We did not fly those planes at the World Trade Center. Al Qaeda did.]
[Saul Berenson: You harbored Osama Bin Laden.]
[Haqqani: Bin Laden was a Saudi. I don't see you invading that country.]
[Saul Berenson: We came here to kill or capture those directly responsible.]
Bob Simon: Did you talk to CIA people before you played the part?
Mandy Patinkin: Yes, I did. And I continue to. And I'm not allowed to tell you who they
are.
Bob Simon: Don't tell me who they are. But tell me what they tell you and how you react
to it.
Mandy Patinkin: You know, I talk to a variety of them. So I'm going to pick the one that
meets Mandy's slash Saul's heart and tempo and temperature. And so I found that guy and
he tells me stuff because he wants me to understand how he cares about the world and why he does
some of the horrible things that he does, quote unquote, "horrible."
Bob Simon: But he does it.
Mandy Patinkin: He does it because he's a soldier.
This season begins with an American bombing of a wedding party, kicking off a new cycle
of vengeance and violence.
Mandy Patinkin: I think the question of this particular season that I rarely see in American
television is: Who is the bad guy? Is America possibly the bad guy?
Heavy stuff, for an actor who made his name in musical theater.
[Mandy Patinkin: Bit by bit! Only way to make a work of art. Every moment makes a contribution,
every little detail plays a part!]
This was Mandy 30 years ago, starring in Sondheim's "Sunday in the Park with George." He'd already
won a Tony for "Evita," and critics' praise for his "fiercely intelligent" performances.
[Mandy Patinkin: Putting it together. Bit by bit!]
His preparation is legendary. He learned to fence for his most famous role in "The Princess
Bride," which also gave him his most memorable line.
[Mandy Patinkin: Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.]
People ask him to recite it to this day. So we did too.
Mandy Patinkin: Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
Then there are the people who know Mandy for this...
He does nearly 50 concerts a year in cities across the country, singing an eclectic blend
of show tunes, rock anthems and folk songs. Not bad for a guy who doesn't read music.
Mandy Patinkin: I'm a lyrically driven person. I am not a musically driven person. That's
why I love Sondheim. That's why I love Shakespeare. That's why I love Irving Berlin and Rodgers
and Hammerstein and Tom Waits and Paul Simon and Randy Newman. They're storytellers.
Bob Simon: Have you always talked so fast?
Mandy Patinkin: Yes. And I was horrified. I saw an interview that I did with someone,
and I was horrified by it. And I said to my wife, "This is unbearable how I talk."
Bob Simon: It's unbearable for me, it's hard...
Mandy Patinkin: I'm sorry, I'll shut up.
Bob Simon: No. It's not a question of shutting up. I mean, you go for two minutes without
taking a breath. It's very hard to pop in a question.
Mandy Patinkin: I guess the reason is there's various things that have popped up that I
really want to say before I check out. If I can leave something behind.
The next time we met, at his rustic retreat in upstate New York, he told us he'd already
cleaned the house and taken a 10-mile bike ride to burn off some excess energy. He also
went through a ritual he conducts before big interviews and performances.
Mandy Patinkin: I recite every name of every person that I've known who's passed on. And
I do that because there was a line in the libretto of "Carousel." And the line is: "As
long as there's one person on Earth who remembers you, it isn't over." And I, it's a game I
play that gives me...
Bob Simon: It's not a game, it's very serious.
Mandy Patinkin: It is a game, the whole ball of wax is a game -- your life, my life, politics,
economy, hunger...
Bob Simon: By definition a game has winners and losers.
Mandy Patinkin: Yes, it does. I think we all lose in the end because we don't get to stay
here forever. That is a part of the game at this point, I think, is a profound flaw.
Despite roles in a handful of films, including "Ragtime," he never became a leading man,
partly because of two epic mistakes, career blunders that he rarely discusses in public.
Bob Simon: You actually think I'm not going to ask you what those mistakes were?
Mandy Patinkin: That's fine, I'll tell you what they were. One was having said yes to
do the movie "Heartburn" with Mike Nichols and Meryl Streep when I knew it wasn't right
for me. That how could I turn down Mike and Meryl? And I wanted to be a movie star, and
I wanted to be powerful, and I wanted to be more things than I was at that time. And I
didn't like the piece.
And it showed. Director Mike Nichols fired him after one day and replaced him with Jack
Nicholson.
[Jack Nicholson: I'm Mark Foreman.]
After that, his leading roles were mostly on television.
[Mandy Patinkin: Come on!]
He won an Emmy playing a doctor in "Chicago Hope."
[Mandy Patinkin: I'm Jason Gideon.]
Then starred as an FBI profiler in "Criminal Minds." But in an infamous real-life episode,
Mandy abruptly quit that show, saying he objected to the content, leaving his cast mates, crew
and CBS, high and dry.
Mandy Patinkin: Wasn't their mistake. It was mine. I chose it because I was greedy. I wanted
more money. I was always worried about money. And I was always worried that I needed more
money and I needed to be more famous to get more money, and this, and that, and everything.
When the fact of the matter is, which my wife always says to me, we have never wanted. She
said, "Where do you get this fear from?" I don't know. Maybe it's genetic, maybe it's
nonsense. But it's greed.
He thought he'd never work in television again. For years, his reputation as an obsessive,
hard-to-handle actor preceded him.
Bob Simon: You have such a clear vision of what you're doing. Is it ever painful for
you to take instruction from a director?
Mandy Patinkin: It used to be, and I wouldn't do it for years, and I was ashamed of myself.
And I apologize. I've apologized in print, I apologize here because...
Bob Simon: But I'm sure sometimes you were right and they were wrong.
Mandy Patinkin: Who cares? Who cares if I was right and they were wrong? You're a person,
you're directing me, you're talking to me. Be a human being, listen to you. Is it cancer?
Is it world peace? No, it's a movie, it's a TV show. Try!
He can be hard on himself, tracing some of that anger back to the loss of his father
when Mandy was 18.
Mandy Patinkin: I remember he dreamed of things, "I'm going to go do this, I'm going to go
do that when the kids are older," and then he died from pancreatic cancer and he didn't
do it. And I remember that 18-year-old kid said, "I'm not going to wait." And I became
impatient for anything I dreamed of, I wanted it done by sundown.
And he wanted to remember every moment of every day.
Mandy Patinkin: This is recreating my father's junkyard, the Scrap Corporation People's Iron
and Metal Company was the name of it. It was on the South Side of Chicago at Loomis and
Hoyne.
He showed us how he's documented his life with an electric train set. He spent decades
building this world. It takes him back more than 50 years.
Mandy Patinkin: In many ways they saved my childhood. I lived under that train table
and it was like a little tree house. Like a refuge to me.
Bob Simon: Mandy's retreat.
Mandy Patinkin: Yeah. Those trains right up there on that shelf, those are the trains
my father bought me when I was eight years old. Those are the first trains and every
one of them works perfectly.
Mandy Patinkin: This is my ma. She was a great cook, so we named a diner after her.
Every piece has a story. And we found ourselves still shooting late that night.
Mandy Patinkin: Guys? Somebody come over here with us. This is a real fun thing!
By then, Mandy had talked us under the table.
Mandy Patinkin: I like the trolley because it doesn't break down.
Bob Simon: There it is. There it is. It is great!
Kathryn Patinkin: I think one of the best-kept secrets about my husband is how damn funny
he is.
Mandy's wife of 34 years and the mother of his two sons is actress Kathryn Grody. She
says what attracted her was his authenticity, even though he could put some people off.
Kathryn Patinkin: He doesn't know the intensity that he comes off as. He can certainly be
obnoxious. And he has three members of his family that have no problem in saying, "Dad,
that was obnoxious."
Bob Simon: So the family is not scared of him?
Kathryn Patinkin: Well, not anymore. I mean I would, you know, it's an interesting, the
nature, nurture thing. I think my youngest son was never, ever afraid of this guy, ever.
Mandy Patinkin: He taught my older one and my wife more about how to handle me. Before
I learned to handle my moods. And I'd had mood struggles.
"Homeland" has turned out to be an antidote to those struggles resurrecting his career,
and giving him something else, the role of the quiet, wise Saul Berenson, which he says
is not so much a stretch, as an aspiration.
Bob Simon: Saul comes across as very calm, almost avuncular. This about as far as you
can get from Mandy Patinkin.
Mandy Patinkin: Mandy is not calm. So that's acting. I'm acting. And, and I love playing
someone calm. I wish I'd had that role earlier on in life. There's a lot of Saul I like to
take with me in my life.
Bob Simon: What would you like to take with you?
Mandy Patinkin: His quiet, his ability to truly, legitimately listen. His lack of a
need to speak first, to get his ideas out.
Bob Simon: Has this really affected you?
Mandy Patinkin: Not enough.
[Mandy Patinkin and Taylor Mac: Sometimes I think we're on the right track...]
When he finishes playing Saul, he'll go back to being Mandy, diving into an experimental
musical with his longtime pianist Paul ford and actor Taylor Mac. He told us his purpose
in life can be summed up in a single word: "connect." Singing and performing have always
been his surest means of doing that.
[Mandy Patinkin and Taylor Mac: Didn't mean to make you cry. If I'm not back tomorrow,
carry on, carry on, as if nothing really matters.]
Mandy Patinkin: Somebody just offered me a part the other day, the older guy in a film.
And I remember saying to the guy, "I'm so sad that I'm old enough to play this part,
and I'm so grateful that I am." Because, you know, all that clich??d things, you really
do learn something if you get the luck of being able to hang around. Even if it's a
rough ride, you learn.