Jay: George Lucas comes up to you,
he hands you all six Star Wars movies.
And he says you can pick any character,
but you could only be in one movie.
What movie would you be in, what character
would you want to play?
Ming: Oh, man, I mean, if I were to pick...
Walt: Please tell me you don't realize you're Jar Jar Binks.
Ming: How am I Jar Jar Binks?
- Do I talk in a weird ac... - Bryan: Me nobody like.
[laughter]
Ming: I don't know, I-I'm not Jar Jar Binks.
I think I want to be Han Solo from Empire Strikes Back.
Jay: Mike, who are you gonna be?
Mike: Obi-Wan in Phantom Menace.
Walt: George Lucas is like, "You guys have looked
in a mirror, right?"
- Mike: Tell you what... - Bryan: Not lately.
[laughter] Why do you ask?
Walt: I mean, I gotta go Darth Vader, right?
Bryan: You come in, they're screwing around.
You're like... Just like, "Oh!"
I'm gonna go Greedo.
My face is covered, I immediately get killed,
yet I remain in the mythos forever
with this "who shot first" thing.
Jay: Oh, and you get to square off with Ming too at the table.
Bryan: Yes, the... the Handsome Solo over there.
[laughter]
Ming: Hey, I shot first, man.
[laughter]
[heroic music]
Synced and Corrected By Nsiko www.Addic7ed.com
Hello, and welcome to another episode
of Comic Book Men, the only show that has the infinity stones
to tell it like it is.
- I'm Kevin Smith. - Bryan: Bryan Johnson.
- Walt: Walt Flanagan. - Mike: Mike Zapcic.
Ming: Ming Chen.
Kevin: All right, you guys get in any shenanigans this week,
or what?
Walt: Jay happened to be at the Stash today,
and we all proceeded to just geek out.
Jay: All right, good job, Ming.
Remember, be... be careful with that.
That is old.
That is the original glass from Monmouth Street, dude.
That's the original Jay and Silent Bob Secret Stash.
Ming: I got it.
Does it bring back some memories?
Jay: It does.
Bryan: I remember going to the store and, like,
it should have been open. I would, like, yank on the door.
That's the glass I'd have to look through
to be like, "Where's Mewes?" [laughter]
Jay: That's true. That's true.
- Man: Hey, guys. - Ming: What's going on?
Man: Hey, I think I have something
that you're going to like.
Ming: Oh, my God.
Man: 1981, Milton Bradley.
The world's first electronic board game, Dark Tower.
Ming: Oh, my God.
I haven't seen one of these in a long time.
I remember seeing this in the toy store.
You know, you had, you know, Chutes and Ladders, Life,
Monopoly, and then you had this.
I mean, those other games were for kids.
- This was just like... - Man: This was mack daddy.
Walt: This was a man's game right here?
Man: This is a man's game.
Bryan: It says 10 to adult right there.
- Jay: Exactly. - Ming: Can we open it up?
- Man: Yeah, for sure. - Ming: Check it out?
Okay. [laughs]
Walt: It's not very impressive looking.
Ming: What are you talking about?
It's a big, foreboding dark tower.
You have... you have your choice between this
and, like, a little thimble.
What are you gonna take?
Kevin: I remember that game. And it was so complicated.
There were beeps and whistles, but it didn't make that game
any more fun.
Ming: I disagree.
Right in the middle was an intimidating electronic
dark tower and it... it had a keypad of buttons.
And you could buy things and you could battle orcs and trolls.
In the early '80s, I thought
that blew all the other games away.
Kevin: If only Candyland had a tower in the middle of it.
Bryan: A dark tower.
- Ming: There you go. - Man: There we go.
Ming: You've played this, obviously.
Man: A couple times.
Ming: You remember how exciting it was.
The object of the game was to go around, amass an army,
find three keys, and then once you did that, you could attack
the evil inside the dark tower.
It would light up when you got into a battle.
- It had orcs... - Walt: You had this?
Ming: Uh, I didn't have this as a kid.
It was pretty... I didn't. When it came out,
it was a fairly expensive game.
Walt: Suffice to say, your parents would not
- buy it for you? - Ming: No.
Bryan: You were the original Oliver Twist.
And even you got stuff as a kid, right?
Jay: Yeah, sometimes.
But it was usually after my mom stole a credit card
to pay for it. [laughter]
So it depended on if it was a good mail, uh,
mail theft day or not.
Ming: Wow.
Jay: I mean, she wasn't as frugal as your pops.
Ming: So later on in life when I had some money,
I went online and I bought this game.
I paid over $100 for it.
I had friends over. We had Dark Tower parties.
Jay: Oh, it sounds like a blast.
Ming: But I ended up selling it for, like, $300
to buy my wife a expensive pair of shoes.
Byran: Do you wish you had the game back
- instead of the shoes now? - Ming: No, but, you know,
I'm... I would love to have this back, though.
Man: All right, well, there's a little catch here.
When you turn it on, the score comes up, but that only works
if you kinda tap it in the right place, the right time.
Walt: So it won't turn on, you're saying?
Man: No, it will turn on sometimes.
Bryan: So it's broken is what you're saying?
Man: You just have to have...
You have to have good luck.
Ming: All right, well, I mean, with that in mind,
I mean, what are you looking to get for this?
Man: I think you guys can get
over 200 for it in the Stash here, so...
Give me 175 and you guys can make a little money too.
Ming: I mean, would you take 75?
Man: Um... the best I'd do is 125.
Ming: With the tower's not working, you know,
I might as well pitch it in the garbage.
That's a little... all right, you know what, I'm sorry.
That's a little harsh.
That's a little harsh. I do like this game.
Man: Uh, it's fine, it's fine. I appreciate it.
Ming: I-I... yeah, I can't go over 75, though.
Man: It's... it's fine. I'll take it back.
I'll sell it online. Thank you so much, guys.
- I appreciate it. - Ming: Well, yeah,
thanks for bringing it in. I mean, it... it is cool.
If it were working, I mean, I'd be drooling all over this, but...
man: Yeah.
Ming: No drool today. But thank you.
Man: Yeah, thanks so much, guys. I appreciate it.
- Jay: Thank you. - Ming: See you later.
- Walt: What do you think? - Man: I've seen other copies
not nearly in this good of condition.
This is the holy grail for me.
Mike: Hey, when you guys were kids,
did you ever wish you had a talking dog?
Walt: I saw a video. There are dogs that can say,
"I love you" and "mama" now. I mean, it's not a lot.
- Bryan: Now? - Walt: Yeah, yeah.
Bryan: It's been on America's Funniest Home Videos
for, like, 20 years now.
I hear there's a special breed of dog that can now say...
- [guttural] "Mama!" - [laughter]
Jay: If you have a talking dog, do people know
that the dog talks? Well, because it...
I wouldn't want people to know, 'cause I could send
my dog over to eavesdrop on conversations,
then come over and tell me.
Walt: Would you do the same things you do in front
of the dog now that you would do in front of an intelligent dog?
- Ming: No. No. - Walt: No?
Bryan: The dog would run right back to my girlfriend.
[guttural] "Bryan's cheating on you."
- Mike: How you doing? - Man: Hey, how's it going, guys?
Uh, can I took a look at the Silver Surfer number 3?
Walt: Absolutely. Mike, want to grab that Surfer?
- Mike: Sure. - Walt: Big Surfer fan?
Man: Yeah, man. He's one of my favorites.
- Mike: Here we are. - Walt: There we go.
Issue number 3. First appearance of Mephisto.
- What do you think? - Man: I've seen other copies
not nearly in this good of condition.
Walt: You a big fan of the Silver Surfer, Jay?
- Jay: I'm not. I'm not. - Man: Really?
Jay: I mean, I like Silver Surfer, but I'm just saying,
I never read enough books
to have enough knowledge of the Surfer.
Walt: Well, he's the... he is the thinking man's superhero,
I'd have to say.
He ponders every move.
If he just wants to take a step, there's like four or five
thought balloons that precede that step.
Bryan: I think what you're trying to say is,
he's the boring superhero?
Jay: So this is number 3 and it's...
man: It's... it's the first appearance of Mephisto,
- one of his... his villains. - Jay: Ooh.
Mike: Mephisto is Marvel's answer to Satan,
'cause they couldn't call him Satan.
- Walt: Why couldn't they? - Mike: Uh, comics code.
They said you can't have Satan being a character
in a comic book.
Bryan: So just call him by one of his many other names
- and it's cool? - Mike: Eh, pretty much.
[laughter]
Walt: Marvel was never afraid to tackle any fad,
even the satanic fad.
Kevin: Yeah, they're just like, "What are the kids into?
The devil? All right. Put a book out there."
Let me ask you this.
You're a pretty straightforward dude and stuff.
Why do you gravitate toward the darkness, toward the devil?
Walt: It's the ultimate evil. I mean, I don't want to see...
Kevin: "And that's what I gravitate toward,
the ultimate evil."
Walt: No, I don't want to see the ultimate evil win.
Kevin: Right.
Walt: But if I want to see my heroes throw down,
I want to see them beat the ultimate evil.
Kevin: So you're growing up going, "Ma, why won't Batman
ever fight Satan?"
[laughter]
Bryan: What's the Silver Surfer's deal?
Like, he's a superhero, but what does he do?
Man: He has the Power Cosmic, man.
He just soars through the spaceways.
Jay: But how does he fight? How does he fight someone?
- With what powers? - Man: I mean...
Walt: He's got plenty of power. Just like he said,
he's got the Power Cosmic.
Bryan: The Power Cosmic is so vague.
What the hell does that mean? What does that mean?
Walt: It means he's a... he's a badass.
Jay: He's like, "Aiyee!"
Walt: I cannot believe you don't dig the Silver Surfer.
That's so disappointing to me, man.
I feel like... I feel like taking a rock
and just putting it right through that face
right up there when you say you don't like the Silver Surfer.
Jay: I didn't say I don't like him, I just said I don't know
enough about him. I've read so many other comics
that, you know, he was... he was down here.
Bryan: Stand your ground. Don't worry about him
- throwing a rock at your face. - Jay: I'm just saying.
[laughter]
Man: This is a key issue for me.
I have a lot of the first run.
This is, like, the holy grail for me, um...
Walt: Would you like to pop it open, take a look at it?
- Man: Yes, I-I... - Walt: Make sure?
Jay: What if his hands aren't clean, bro?
Walt: Well, he's not gonna touch it.
Jay: Oh, okay.
Walt: All right, so, issue number 3.
- First appearance of Mephisto. - Man: Right.
Walt: Really nice copy. Very high grade as well.
That's why we're looking to get 250 for it.
What do you think?
Man: It's a little much for me.
Um...
Can you do 180?
- Walt: 180. - Bryan: Mmm.
Walt: I can knock 25 bucks down. I can go to 225.
Man: That's still a little steep.
Would you do 200 for it?
Walt: We could do 200. I could do that.
- Thanks. - Man: Thanks.
Jay: I like it. 200 bucks.
Let's see the money. Show me the money!
Three, four, five.
And he even had an extra 50 bucks in there.
Huh? He even had more.
Bryan: He used the Power Cosmic on you, man.
Jay: He did. He did.
- Walt: All right. - Man: Thank you, sir.
Walt: Thank you.
Man: I got some, uh, Spider-Man history
I thought you may want to check out.
It's some, uh, letters I've got from Steve Ditko,
the creator of Spider-Man.
Walt: They're very, very special.
Walt: Did you have a family board game night?
Certain night of the week?
Kevin: The one time the whole family did get involved
in a game was not a board game, but a gaming system.
That triangular video game system that had, like,
the firing game and a racing game in it.
And then the other one was Pong. So many fights.
Until my mother was just like, "Never again!"
And it went away till next Christmas.
Walt: I think, like, uh, a lot of board games, um,
they take way too long.
A lot of the siblings and parents throw a board
by the, uh, the first half hour involved and they're just trying
to cheat to get out of, uh... "You won, let's get it over,
let's watch some TV."
Bryan: Well, then the second half hour, it encourages
violence, obviously. People are fighting.
Kevin: There is no... no worse fight than the family fight
over a board game.
You know, tears are rolling and the, uh, voices are raising.
And then somewhere in the midst of it, there's some calmness
inside of you going, "This is over Life.
We have the game of Life, not even real life."
Mike: My parents almost got divorced because of Uno, so,
- you know, it was a... - [laughter]
It kinda scarred me off of, uh, games.
Kevin: They were like, "Marriage? Skip."
Ming: Do you guys remember in The Matrix
where they would upload a program,
you could learn a skill immediately?
Like, if there was one skill that you could pick,
- what would it be? - Jay: Can I learn how to do
"half, half, whole," like, perfect?
Ming: Yeah, you... you could... you could increase
your sexual prowess like... like that.
- Jay: Really? Yeah. - Walt: What's that?
Walt: "Half, half, whole"?
Jay: You know, like, half, half, whole.
- So... - Ming: You got the swivel.
Jay: I'm not saying that's what I want,
but I really would love to know Spanish.
Bryan: I'd either want to know "half, half, whole," or Spanish.
Jay: I just feel like it would take years
to learn another language.
Ming: How long do you... do you think it would take Mike
to learn "half, half, whole"?
[laughter]
Bryan: Longer than it takes him to learn Spanish.
- Walt: Hey, man. How you doing? - Jeff: What's going on, man?
- How are ya? - Walt: Good.
Jeff: Got some, uh, Spider-Man history I thought
- you might want to check out. - Walt: Sure.
What do you got?
Okay. Just open her up?
Jeff: Yeah, have at it.
It's some, uh, letters I've got from Steve Ditko,
- the creator of Spider-Man. - Walt: Really?
So Steve Ditko sent you some letters?
Jeff: Yeah. He's like my 88-year-old penpal.
Walt: "Dear, Jeff. Everyone who publicly does anything,
"from the best to the poorest seller,
"will find an audience, followers, and critics.
Regards, Steve Ditko."
Jeff: He's, you know, kinda out there.
Speaks in riddles.
Walt: Um, I actually... I kinda actually agree with that.
I think that's, uh, actually pretty poetic.
Why did he send this to you?
Jeff: Some people in the past had written him letters.
I figured I'd give it a shot, and he wrote back.
- Mike: That's amazing. - Jeff: Believe it or not.
Kevin: Steve Ditko, for those who don't know,
is the co-father of Spider-Man.
Walt: I mean, and not just Spider-Man,
- but you have The Question... - Kevin: Oh!
Walt: Creeper, Hawk and Dove. The list goes on and on.
But Steve Ditko has kinda fallen out
of the public eye for a long, long time.
Kevin: Kinda like the JD Salinger of comic books.
At a certain point, he just kinda went away
and didn't interact with fandom.
Became a bit more reculsive and whatnot.
So to look into the life of, like, one of the biggest
creators in comic books ever is pretty damn exclusive.
Walt: Let's just take one of these nuggets
- that, uh, that caught my eye. - Bryan: Okay, drop it, baby.
Walt: "I see it was a mistake
"clarifying you on young Peter Parker/Spider-Man.
"Now I'm supposed to fill you in about my Marvel days as I know?
Comic book fans are always asking too much."
- Mike: Ooh! - Bryan: "Fans." Yes!
Jeff: Like I said, I-I stepped one over the... the line there.
Mike: You probably asked him, "What was it like
to be hanging out with Stan Lee?"
Bryan: Yeah.
Walt: Uh... they're... yeah, they're really cool, man.
Thanks for bringing them in. I mean, they're pretty special.
Jeff: Yeah, I figured you'd appreciate 'em.
Walt: They're very, very special.
Is that... I mean is it... did you bring them in for any other...
Jeff: I was looking to see if you guys
were interested in buying them.
- Walt: Oh, you want to sell them? - Jeff: Possibly.
I'm not 100% committed to selling them, but if you guys
- are interested in them... - Walt: Wow.
Jeff: To be able to kind of pass them on to...
Bryan: You're 100% committed if the price is right?
- Jeff: Sure. - Walt: That's gotta be
a little distasteful, right?
I mean, you reach out to the guy, he's good enough
to write you back, and now you want to sell them?
Jeff: I'm not looking to get a million dollars out of them.
Bryan: I'm sure... I'm sure he takes solace in that.
[laughter]
Walt: I mean, he took the time to write these personally...
Jeff: Well, I took the time to write him too.
Walt: Oh! [laughs]
Steve Ditko's running to the mail,
"Oh, Jeff wrote me again. Thank God!"
Bryan: Didn't Ditko come in yesterday
trying to sell his letters?
[laughter]
Jeff: Well, like I said, I'm not 100% interested in selling them,
but if the number was right, then I would consider it.
Walt: And you're looking to get how much for them?
Jeff: About 10,000.
- Kevin: $10,000? - Walt: Yes.
Kevin: What, does he get paid by the letter?
[Walt laughs]
Kevin: He didn't learn nothing from Spider-Man.
Spider-Man in the beginning wanted to use his powers
for monetary gain.
Walt: I don't think this guy's gonna become Spider-Man.
[laughter]
We appreciate you sharing it with us.
Jeff: No problem.
Walt: Sharing it with us was pretty cool,
but buying it is not something
I think that we would have an interest in.
Jeff: No problem at all.
Walt: Thank you for bringing it in.
- Jeff: Thanks for looking at it. - Walt: I appreciate it.
- Jeff: All right, take care, man. - Walt: All right.
Which creator would you write to?
Mike: Um...
Bryan: Probably Ditko because he'll write back to anybody.
[laughter]
Man: Uh, I got some artwork I want you to see here.
Mike: Oh, wow.
Man: Hey, guys, how you doing today?
- Walt: How you doing? - Man: Good.
Uh, I got some artwork I want you to see here
- from Amazing Fantasy 15. - Walt: Oh, wow.
So wait. So these aren't the pages
from the original Amazing Fantasy 15.
Those are in the Library of Congress?
- Mike: Right. - Walt: So what are these, then?
Man: These are just reproduction art.
Walt: So somebody went in and redid the whole story?
Man: Exactly, yeah.
Walt: They're spot-on, aren't they?
Mike: They're gorgeous.
Walt: Where did you get this from?
Man: I actually acquired it on a trade through an online Website.
Uh, a gentleman told me that he acquired these in the '80s
from an estate sale, and that's where he left it.
Walt: I mean, what's, like,
one of the great mysteries of the world?
Mike: What happened to Amelia Earhart?
Walt: Who kidnapped the Lindbergh baby?
Maybe this could be the new, uh, mystery
of the, uh, unsolved mystery.
Bryan: I feel like people are tired of talking
about the Lindbergh baby. Yeah, you're right.
[laughter]
Kevin: Everything you need to know about
and tell a Spider-Man story is right there in those 11 pages.
It might be some of the most succinct, brilliant writing
ever done by a comic book writer.
It packs so much within such a small amount of space,
and then the renderings as well
just really bring that story to life, man.
Ditko's art was beautiful and told the story
of a superhero that kids hadn't seen before,
someone that was more like them, their age,
as opposed to an adult.
Walt: It looks like they went to a manic amount of detail
to make it look like the legit deal.
Man: That was one of the things that drew my eye to it.
The book was originally supposed to be slated for April of '62,
and someone actually went off and corrected it August '62.
And then this is the more fanned-out cloud line
that they actually had on the original 15 that Kirby did,
and then, of course,
the little wisp that comes off the top bubble.
Walt: You know who might be able to solve the mystery?
Rob Bruce, right?
You want to give Rob Bruce a call?
- You mind if we give him a call? - Man: No, do that.
Walt: And also, do you mind
if we take it back to the poker table, lay them out,
- and kind of soak it all in? - Man: Yeah, let's do that.
- Rob: Hey, guys. Wow, look at that. - Mike: What's up, Rob?
Rob: It's pretty substantial. So what's the deal?
Walt: That's what we called you in for?
He's hoping you have any knowledge
where these pages may have come from?
Rob: I really believe that somebody sat in their basement
and literally traced... 'cause there's no way
that anybody could've hand-drawn this.
I mean, this is extreme.
Mike: Someone sweated blood doing everything to...
- Walt: A T. - Mike: A T.
Walt: But we don't know its origins at all.
It's only right now speculation.
It's a true mystery.
Kevin: So do you think
it was just, like, the ultimate fan effort,
or do you think it was somebody trying to make a buck?
Walt: Some lunatic, psychopath was like,
"I'm gonna see if I can do it."
Kevin: But my kind of lunatic, psychopath.
He was like, "I'm not gonna hurt others.
I'm just gonna copy a comic book."
[laughter]
Bryan: My theory was, who cares?
[laughter]
Walt: What would your best guess be why this was made?
Rob: I think it's a forgery.
Just as they've attempted
to make forgeries of the Mona Lisa
or, you know, Starry Night by Van Gogh,
it's on that level,
'cause this book... I mean, it's one of the few books
that will actually sell for more than a million dollars.
But what would you pay for this?
Probably $100 a page, $75 a page.
What could it be worth?
It's kind of like that "unknown."
Walt: You know, taking in what Robert says,
I still have interest in it
if you're really looking to sell them today.
Man: Yeah, definitely.
Walt: What'll it take for you to let them go today?
Man: Well, with what Rob said, um, I'm thinking about a grand.
Walt: Would you take $700 for it?
Man: I'm really stuck on that grand.
Walt: Yeah.
I can do 8.
But I'm not gonna be able to go more than $800 on the lot.
Man: [inhales sharply] No way you can do $900?
Walt: No, I can't do it.
Man: All right, let's do 8.
Walt: Take it?
Man: Take it. Give it a good home.
Walt: All right, man, Got a deal.
Rob: It's incredible. I can't wait to see them framed.
I'm gonna be really mad if I come in here in, like, a year,
and they're, like, 18,000.
- Walt: No. - Mike: Each.
Walt: Maybe somebody out there
knows where these pages came from.
Maybe they'll contact the Stash
and let us, you know, find out the mystery
of the counterfeit Amazing Fantasy 15.
Kevin: And if you can't help us figure out the mystery, kids,
at least now you know you can come into the Stash
with the "Declaration of Independence"
and probably sell it to Walt.
***
For Comic Book Men, I'm Kevin Smith.
- Bryan Johnson. - Walt Flanagan.
- Mike Zapcic. - Ming Chen.
Rebember Kids, don't ever let anyone tell you,
you're not worth enough to ***, good night.