1 00:00:02,302 --> 00:00:03,338 Are you alright? 2 00:00:03,468 --> 00:00:05,411 I made a terrible mistake. 3 00:00:07,724 --> 00:00:09,475 I let Max use my computer. 4 00:00:09,668 --> 00:00:12,002 I didn't realize I hadn't cleared the searches and 5 00:00:12,163 --> 00:00:15,764 just knew from his face exactly what he'd seen and 6 00:00:15,852 --> 00:00:18,794 he asked me if I was sick. 7 00:00:18,972 --> 00:00:21,659 Maybe you can tell me some more about Kate's fiancee 8 00:00:21,772 --> 00:00:23,636 can you tell me what disturbs you most? 9 00:00:23,764 --> 00:00:25,459 Apart from the fact that he thinks he knows 10 00:00:25,563 --> 00:00:27,371 what's right for my kid? 11 00:00:27,458 --> 00:00:29,234 I think I'm beginning to understand how 12 00:00:29,356 --> 00:00:31,731 the dynamic between you and Gina developed, 13 00:00:31,979 --> 00:00:34,571 how was it you say she presented you in the novel? 14 00:00:34,747 --> 00:00:38,324 Childish, poor husband, deficient father? 15 00:00:38,403 --> 00:00:40,715 Is it possible that you convinced her that 16 00:00:40,826 --> 00:00:42,518 you were incapable? 17 00:00:42,932 --> 00:00:44,388 Why would I do that? 18 00:01:29,750 --> 00:01:34,359 Sync by n17t01 www.addic7ed.com 19 00:01:45,742 --> 00:01:48,010 What she told you was hard to hear. 20 00:01:48,044 --> 00:01:49,645 Of course it was. 21 00:01:49,679 --> 00:01:51,914 All this time going on and telling you about 22 00:01:51,948 --> 00:01:56,018 how traumatized my son was by his stepfather, 23 00:01:56,052 --> 00:01:58,053 and turns out he's in love with the guy. 24 00:01:58,088 --> 00:02:00,222 He's in love with... 25 00:02:00,257 --> 00:02:02,324 it's a figure of speech, 26 00:02:02,359 --> 00:02:04,426 but it's basically what Rosie told me 27 00:02:04,461 --> 00:02:06,495 in so many words. 28 00:02:06,530 --> 00:02:08,464 I mean, 29 00:02:08,498 --> 00:02:10,966 Max and Steve spent the whole weekend together 30 00:02:11,001 --> 00:02:13,469 going to museums. They draw together. They... 31 00:02:13,503 --> 00:02:16,605 Steve brings him into the architecture studio, teaches him... 32 00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:19,508 I don't even know the terms... 33 00:02:19,543 --> 00:02:23,112 line drawing, drafting, whatever it's called, 34 00:02:23,146 --> 00:02:25,247 how to use a mechanical pencil. 35 00:02:25,282 --> 00:02:27,983 Have you spoken to Max about this? 36 00:02:28,018 --> 00:02:31,420 I haven't spoken with Max about much of anything. 37 00:02:31,454 --> 00:02:33,422 I was gonna sit him down 38 00:02:33,456 --> 00:02:35,691 as soon as he came back from Maryland 39 00:02:35,725 --> 00:02:37,693 and talk to him about what he found 40 00:02:37,727 --> 00:02:39,361 on my computer that night... 41 00:02:39,396 --> 00:02:41,497 you know, my Parkinson's research. 42 00:02:41,531 --> 00:02:44,967 But since my conversation with Rosie, 43 00:02:45,001 --> 00:02:47,102 I haven't been able to bring myself to do it. 44 00:02:47,137 --> 00:02:49,071 What are you afraid to hear Max say? 45 00:02:49,105 --> 00:02:51,073 Are you... 46 00:02:51,107 --> 00:02:53,242 are you really gonna make me answer that? 47 00:02:53,276 --> 00:02:55,678 I mean, you... you saw perfectly 48 00:02:55,712 --> 00:02:57,680 what was happening last week 49 00:02:57,714 --> 00:02:59,315 more clearly than I saw it myself. 50 00:02:59,349 --> 00:03:02,184 I'm sure you know the answer without me having to say it. 51 00:03:02,218 --> 00:03:05,187 You think I know what you're going to say before you say it? 52 00:03:06,723 --> 00:03:11,493 I was getting my son to worry about me. 53 00:03:11,528 --> 00:03:14,029 He won't tell me about Steve 54 00:03:14,064 --> 00:03:17,600 because he's trying to protect me. 55 00:03:17,634 --> 00:03:20,202 I... 56 00:03:20,236 --> 00:03:22,638 I can't stop myself from wondering 57 00:03:22,672 --> 00:03:25,274 if, you know... 58 00:03:25,308 --> 00:03:29,011 if he'd actually be better off in Maryland. 59 00:03:29,045 --> 00:03:31,580 With his mother and Steve. 60 00:03:33,483 --> 00:03:35,751 It's hard for you to consider that. 61 00:03:35,785 --> 00:03:39,488 They share this passion for drawing, for art. 62 00:03:39,522 --> 00:03:43,092 And Steve feeds it. I mean, how can I deny my son that? 63 00:03:43,126 --> 00:03:46,061 If I did, I'd be doing exactly what was done to me. 64 00:03:46,096 --> 00:03:48,063 I'd be... I'd be dragging him away 65 00:03:48,098 --> 00:03:50,299 from his vibrant teenage years 66 00:03:50,333 --> 00:03:53,502 and taking him to a dreary, 67 00:03:53,536 --> 00:03:58,273 lifeless apartment with a sick parent. 68 00:03:58,308 --> 00:04:01,010 Is that how you see your existence... 69 00:04:01,044 --> 00:04:03,212 as dreary and lifeless? 70 00:04:03,246 --> 00:04:05,447 I'm sure that's how Max sees it. 71 00:04:05,482 --> 00:04:07,483 I wasn't asking about Max. 72 00:04:07,517 --> 00:04:09,618 I really wish Rosie had never told me 73 00:04:09,653 --> 00:04:11,620 about the fucking twin drafting tables. 74 00:04:11,655 --> 00:04:13,989 I really could have done without that detail. 75 00:04:14,024 --> 00:04:15,824 Is that what gets to you most? 76 00:04:15,859 --> 00:04:19,928 It all gets to me... the whole picture. 77 00:04:19,963 --> 00:04:22,297 And it's not just them either. 78 00:04:22,332 --> 00:04:25,801 Just about everybody I know has some kind of passion. 79 00:04:25,835 --> 00:04:30,673 Something or somebody drives them. 80 00:04:30,707 --> 00:04:32,941 But not you. 81 00:04:32,976 --> 00:04:34,910 Sometimes I... 82 00:04:34,944 --> 00:04:38,647 I try to pretend I do, yeah. 83 00:04:38,682 --> 00:04:40,849 How do you do that? 84 00:04:40,884 --> 00:04:43,686 What does that mean, you pretend? 85 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,555 Wendy... 86 00:04:46,589 --> 00:04:49,625 uh, my girlfriend... 87 00:04:49,659 --> 00:04:52,327 she stopped by the apartment 88 00:04:52,362 --> 00:04:54,029 at lunchtime today. 89 00:04:54,064 --> 00:04:56,031 And she knows I have an hour and a half 90 00:04:56,066 --> 00:04:59,935 without any patients. And... 91 00:04:59,969 --> 00:05:03,739 We... we haven't had sex for a while. 92 00:05:03,773 --> 00:05:06,875 And... 93 00:05:06,910 --> 00:05:08,577 Since she can't stay over 94 00:05:08,611 --> 00:05:11,013 and I can't stay at her place because of Max... 95 00:05:11,047 --> 00:05:12,815 Max was away this weekend. 96 00:05:12,849 --> 00:05:15,451 Right. That's true. I hadn't told her that. 97 00:05:15,485 --> 00:05:18,020 But you saw her today. 98 00:05:18,054 --> 00:05:22,057 She has this thing, you know... she... 99 00:05:22,092 --> 00:05:24,593 for some reason she's been wanting 100 00:05:24,627 --> 00:05:26,929 to have sex on the couch in my office. 101 00:05:26,963 --> 00:05:29,665 So we did. 102 00:05:29,699 --> 00:05:33,102 This was your attempt at being passionate about something. 103 00:05:33,136 --> 00:05:35,003 I suppose you're right. 104 00:05:35,038 --> 00:05:36,805 And? 105 00:05:36,840 --> 00:05:40,509 I was... 106 00:05:40,543 --> 00:05:43,746 I was distracted. I was... 107 00:05:43,780 --> 00:05:46,248 I was... 108 00:05:46,282 --> 00:05:50,385 I was thinking about other things. 109 00:05:50,420 --> 00:05:53,222 What were you thinking about? 110 00:05:55,358 --> 00:05:57,993 I don't know. 111 00:06:01,531 --> 00:06:03,565 Not her. 112 00:06:05,969 --> 00:06:09,004 I have this... I have this boat in my office. 113 00:06:09,038 --> 00:06:13,842 And I just found myself staring... 114 00:06:13,877 --> 00:06:16,545 you know, staring at it 115 00:06:16,579 --> 00:06:19,181 after Wendy and I were finished. 116 00:06:19,215 --> 00:06:22,785 It's a... a model, a sailboat. 117 00:06:22,819 --> 00:06:24,920 It's about that big. 118 00:06:27,056 --> 00:06:29,024 I used to have about 26 of them, 119 00:06:29,058 --> 00:06:31,894 different sizes, you know, schooners, sloops. 120 00:06:31,928 --> 00:06:33,929 Do you like to sail? 121 00:06:33,963 --> 00:06:35,264 Never been. 122 00:06:35,298 --> 00:06:40,202 Anyway, these... these boats are... 123 00:06:40,236 --> 00:06:44,239 actually, the boats are the closest I've ever come to a hobby. 124 00:06:44,274 --> 00:06:46,675 And when Max was little, 125 00:06:46,709 --> 00:06:50,445 he really loved it. 126 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,948 We used to go searching at these antique stores. 127 00:06:52,982 --> 00:06:56,485 Sometimes we'd build them from kits, you know. 128 00:06:56,519 --> 00:06:58,487 And we'd give them each a name 129 00:06:58,521 --> 00:07:00,756 and we'd make up these stories 130 00:07:00,790 --> 00:07:02,758 about the places it had been 131 00:07:02,792 --> 00:07:07,529 and the places that it would go. 132 00:07:07,564 --> 00:07:10,332 How come there's only one boat left? 133 00:07:10,366 --> 00:07:12,968 He lost interest. 134 00:07:13,002 --> 00:07:15,437 Then when I moved up to Brooklyn, 135 00:07:15,471 --> 00:07:18,140 I just left the rest of them behind. 136 00:07:18,174 --> 00:07:21,476 They... I don't know, 137 00:07:21,511 --> 00:07:25,781 they just started to feel a bit pathetic... 138 00:07:25,815 --> 00:07:27,716 22" reminders 139 00:07:27,750 --> 00:07:31,486 of all the places I'd never been and I would never get to. 140 00:07:31,521 --> 00:07:35,123 The one that I saved... I keep it in my office. 141 00:07:35,158 --> 00:07:37,960 I see it over my patients' shoulders. 142 00:07:37,994 --> 00:07:40,028 So I sit and I listen to them talk, 143 00:07:40,063 --> 00:07:42,598 and every single one of them, they... 144 00:07:42,632 --> 00:07:45,234 no matter how sick or screwed up they are... 145 00:07:45,268 --> 00:07:49,805 they... they all have a real passion. 146 00:07:49,839 --> 00:07:51,807 You find all your patients 147 00:07:51,841 --> 00:07:54,710 have something you don't, something you're missing? 148 00:07:54,744 --> 00:07:58,080 I do feel that way a lot, yeah. 149 00:07:58,114 --> 00:08:01,650 Jesse... he loves photography. 150 00:08:01,684 --> 00:08:05,354 He's got this fierce attachment to his camera. 151 00:08:06,589 --> 00:08:10,025 And frances has her acting. 152 00:08:10,059 --> 00:08:13,595 Although it's hard for her to admit, with all the guilt she has around it, 153 00:08:13,630 --> 00:08:17,266 there's no question of what it means to her. 154 00:08:17,300 --> 00:08:19,601 Other people... 155 00:08:19,636 --> 00:08:22,437 Kate devoted to her clinic, 156 00:08:22,472 --> 00:08:25,908 now to Max's new father. 157 00:08:25,942 --> 00:08:29,912 I mean, even Gina... suddenly a novelist. 158 00:08:29,946 --> 00:08:32,147 As much as I fucking hate her for what she's written, 159 00:08:32,181 --> 00:08:35,450 she has found her... 160 00:08:35,485 --> 00:08:38,720 you know, her calling. 161 00:08:40,957 --> 00:08:45,294 And there's... there's you. 162 00:08:45,328 --> 00:08:47,029 Me? 163 00:08:47,063 --> 00:08:49,398 Why do you include me? 164 00:08:49,432 --> 00:08:52,901 What do you consider my passion to be? 165 00:08:54,137 --> 00:08:57,239 Well, isn't it this... 166 00:08:57,273 --> 00:09:01,910 your work, your patients? 167 00:09:01,945 --> 00:09:04,279 I mean, not that there aren't other things 168 00:09:04,314 --> 00:09:07,716 that you might feel strongly about, 169 00:09:07,750 --> 00:09:10,285 but from where I sit, you seem to be 170 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,189 pretty engaged 171 00:09:14,223 --> 00:09:18,894 even in your cool detachment. 172 00:09:18,928 --> 00:09:21,229 Am I engaged or detached? 173 00:09:21,264 --> 00:09:23,899 I'd... I'd say both. 174 00:09:23,933 --> 00:09:27,669 But... but it is clear 175 00:09:27,704 --> 00:09:30,539 that your work is very important to you. 176 00:09:30,573 --> 00:09:33,742 Am I wrong about that? 177 00:09:33,776 --> 00:09:36,311 My work is important to me. 178 00:09:36,346 --> 00:09:39,081 I'm just wondering why you say that, 179 00:09:39,115 --> 00:09:42,050 how you arrive at this impression. 180 00:09:45,588 --> 00:09:49,291 I went online, you know, the other night. 181 00:09:49,325 --> 00:09:53,028 It's become kind of a bad habit really. 182 00:09:53,062 --> 00:09:56,131 And I found myself back at my desk, 183 00:09:56,165 --> 00:09:59,101 typing in this thing 184 00:09:59,135 --> 00:10:03,572 on Parkinson's/ olfactory symptoms. 185 00:10:03,606 --> 00:10:05,607 And I... 186 00:10:05,641 --> 00:10:07,776 I just stopped. I made myself stop. 187 00:10:07,810 --> 00:10:10,412 And I... 188 00:10:10,446 --> 00:10:13,915 I just happened to type in your name instead. 189 00:10:13,950 --> 00:10:17,386 Did you know there's another Adele Brouse, 190 00:10:17,420 --> 00:10:20,822 also a therapist, in Portland, Oregon? 191 00:10:20,857 --> 00:10:22,524 I wasn't aware of that. 192 00:10:22,558 --> 00:10:25,994 Yeah, an m.S.W., not a psychiatrist, 193 00:10:26,029 --> 00:10:28,964 not nearly as prolific as you. 194 00:10:28,998 --> 00:10:31,700 I mean, all this... a list of stuff comes up, 195 00:10:31,734 --> 00:10:36,004 all the articles that you've published over, you know... 196 00:10:36,039 --> 00:10:38,673 the amount of conferences that you've attended 197 00:10:38,708 --> 00:10:42,310 in Chicago, 198 00:10:42,345 --> 00:10:44,946 Prague, Paris. 199 00:10:44,981 --> 00:10:47,215 What did seeing that mean to you? 200 00:10:47,250 --> 00:10:50,552 Well, the last article that I wrote was in 1998. 201 00:10:50,586 --> 00:10:52,687 Why have you stopped? 202 00:10:53,756 --> 00:10:58,427 Adele Saskia Brouse. 203 00:11:00,930 --> 00:11:03,932 Is that Dutch? 204 00:11:03,966 --> 00:11:08,136 Wasn't Rembrandt's wife called Saskia? 205 00:11:11,441 --> 00:11:14,476 My mother's father was from Holland. 206 00:11:16,145 --> 00:11:18,280 I don't believe it. 207 00:11:18,314 --> 00:11:19,614 What? 208 00:11:19,649 --> 00:11:22,117 You just... you answered my question. 209 00:11:22,151 --> 00:11:24,319 You still haven't answered mine. 210 00:11:24,353 --> 00:11:26,455 Why have you stopped? 211 00:11:27,890 --> 00:11:30,092 Well, let's say that I... 212 00:11:30,126 --> 00:11:32,761 that I no longer share 213 00:11:32,795 --> 00:11:37,899 your professional drive. 214 00:11:37,934 --> 00:11:41,803 My work does feel meaningful at times. 215 00:11:41,838 --> 00:11:43,805 When I'm in the room with my patients, 216 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,241 I'm still interested mostly, 217 00:11:46,275 --> 00:11:50,645 but am I passionate? 218 00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:54,082 You mean in the way you think I am. 219 00:11:54,117 --> 00:11:56,184 Were you ever? 220 00:11:56,219 --> 00:11:59,955 When I was your age, I published. 221 00:11:59,989 --> 00:12:04,326 I still thought I could save people. 222 00:12:05,394 --> 00:12:07,729 Do you ever think that now? 223 00:12:07,763 --> 00:12:11,032 Monday, for 40 minutes, 224 00:12:11,067 --> 00:12:14,903 I had a flash of that feeling. 225 00:12:14,937 --> 00:12:16,638 What happened monday? 226 00:12:16,672 --> 00:12:20,609 You remember Sunil. I told you about him. 227 00:12:20,643 --> 00:12:25,080 He took... he took a huge step. 228 00:12:25,114 --> 00:12:27,182 I'd been trying to get him 229 00:12:27,216 --> 00:12:29,217 to express his anger. 230 00:12:29,252 --> 00:12:31,119 And he'd been inching toward it. 231 00:12:31,154 --> 00:12:34,756 So we were sitting in my office over tea and we were talk... 232 00:12:34,790 --> 00:12:38,393 you were talking over tea? 233 00:12:38,427 --> 00:12:40,395 It makes him feel 234 00:12:40,429 --> 00:12:44,432 like we're having more of a conversation than therapy. 235 00:12:44,467 --> 00:12:47,302 You know, he's a guy who spends all his time 236 00:12:47,336 --> 00:12:50,272 feeling like an outsider in what he perceives to be 237 00:12:50,306 --> 00:12:52,841 this strange, aggressive country. 238 00:12:52,875 --> 00:12:55,577 So he locks himself away in his room. 239 00:12:55,611 --> 00:12:58,413 So sharing tea with me makes him... 240 00:12:58,447 --> 00:13:00,448 you know, draws him out of his shell. 241 00:13:00,483 --> 00:13:03,018 Are you talking about him or you? 242 00:13:03,052 --> 00:13:05,987 I'm talking about him. 243 00:13:06,022 --> 00:13:08,323 Last week you told me that you didn't want 244 00:13:08,357 --> 00:13:10,292 to be my supervisor. 245 00:13:10,326 --> 00:13:12,961 Now you kind of sit there 246 00:13:12,995 --> 00:13:14,930 silently supervising. 247 00:13:14,964 --> 00:13:16,898 It's kind of obvious what you think. 248 00:13:16,933 --> 00:13:18,867 What do I think? 249 00:13:18,901 --> 00:13:20,735 He opened up to me. 250 00:13:20,770 --> 00:13:22,737 He... he told me about 251 00:13:22,772 --> 00:13:25,473 this deeply passionate affair that he had at university... 252 00:13:25,508 --> 00:13:28,276 something he's never spoken of before to anybody 253 00:13:28,311 --> 00:13:30,412 and that's haunted him for years. 254 00:13:30,446 --> 00:13:33,848 You should have seen how transformed he was 255 00:13:33,883 --> 00:13:35,984 when he spoke about this love affair. 256 00:13:36,018 --> 00:13:39,221 It's like he... 257 00:13:39,255 --> 00:13:41,022 he came alive. 258 00:13:41,057 --> 00:13:45,827 I mean, this man isn't... he's not old. 259 00:13:45,861 --> 00:13:49,531 He felt passion at one point in his life. 260 00:13:49,565 --> 00:13:53,001 And I thought, "why couldn't he have that again? 261 00:13:53,035 --> 00:13:54,636 Why couldn't he... ?" 262 00:13:54,670 --> 00:13:57,105 Why couldn't he...? 263 00:13:57,139 --> 00:14:01,610 I don't know. It was... 264 00:14:01,644 --> 00:14:04,679 it was fleeting, what I saw in him, 265 00:14:04,714 --> 00:14:08,817 but a glimpse of somebody different, you know? 266 00:14:12,154 --> 00:14:15,490 Maybe I'm making too much of it. 267 00:14:18,761 --> 00:14:20,629 This recent session with Sunil 268 00:14:20,663 --> 00:14:23,798 had a powerful effect on you. 269 00:14:23,833 --> 00:14:27,902 You seem especially focused on his early love affair. 270 00:14:27,937 --> 00:14:30,639 Well, it's a pretty powerful story, don't you think? 271 00:14:30,673 --> 00:14:33,475 Have you ever felt that passion 272 00:14:33,509 --> 00:14:35,343 romantic passion? 273 00:14:35,378 --> 00:14:38,446 My lunchtime session with Wendy doesn't qualify? 274 00:14:38,481 --> 00:14:40,548 Not according to you. 275 00:14:46,656 --> 00:14:48,657 With Kate, 276 00:14:48,691 --> 00:14:51,159 I suppose, 277 00:14:51,193 --> 00:14:55,030 when I fell in love with her all those years ago. 278 00:14:56,632 --> 00:15:01,303 Even with Wendy last year, at the very beginning. 279 00:15:01,337 --> 00:15:03,071 But now I... 280 00:15:03,105 --> 00:15:05,273 I'm beginning to realize I've got this pattern: 281 00:15:05,308 --> 00:15:08,143 I seek out people who have... who have... 282 00:15:08,177 --> 00:15:11,446 who have themselves a passion for life 283 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,915 and I feed off them instead. 284 00:15:13,949 --> 00:15:17,619 I allow them to... 285 00:15:17,653 --> 00:15:20,555 to feel for both of us. 286 00:15:20,589 --> 00:15:22,824 You allowed both Wendy and Kate 287 00:15:22,858 --> 00:15:24,693 to do your feeling for you? 288 00:15:24,727 --> 00:15:27,629 Yeah, at least... at least in part. 289 00:15:27,663 --> 00:15:29,431 Whatever emotion you do feel, 290 00:15:29,465 --> 00:15:32,934 do you openly express yourself at the time? 291 00:15:32,968 --> 00:15:34,569 Not entirely. 292 00:15:34,603 --> 00:15:36,871 You hold yourself back? 293 00:15:36,906 --> 00:15:40,241 Is... is that what you think? 294 00:15:40,276 --> 00:15:42,911 Earlier, when you were talking about Sunil, 295 00:15:42,945 --> 00:15:46,281 you became engaged, excited, 296 00:15:46,315 --> 00:15:48,583 as you came alive yourself. 297 00:15:48,617 --> 00:15:50,552 You spoke with energy. 298 00:15:50,586 --> 00:15:52,320 You sat forward in your seat. 299 00:15:52,355 --> 00:15:54,489 And then you stopped yourself. 300 00:15:54,523 --> 00:15:56,458 It was striking. 301 00:15:56,492 --> 00:15:59,594 Does that description seem accurate to you? 302 00:15:59,628 --> 00:16:01,563 Do you find you have 303 00:16:01,597 --> 00:16:03,698 passionate or excited impulses, 304 00:16:03,733 --> 00:16:06,234 but stop yourself from expressing them? 305 00:16:09,071 --> 00:16:12,107 I made a similar observation a couple of weeks ago 306 00:16:12,141 --> 00:16:15,076 about you holding yourself back, 307 00:16:15,111 --> 00:16:18,079 and you had a strong reaction. Do you remember? 308 00:16:18,114 --> 00:16:22,584 What... what are you talking about? 309 00:16:22,618 --> 00:16:25,387 You told me about the beginning of your dream... 310 00:16:25,421 --> 00:16:28,823 running toward open gates along a wrought-iron fence, 311 00:16:28,858 --> 00:16:33,094 and then being dragged down, paralyzed. 312 00:16:33,129 --> 00:16:35,697 I asked if you were stopping yourself 313 00:16:35,731 --> 00:16:37,198 and you got very angry at me. 314 00:16:37,233 --> 00:16:39,768 You insisted it was your father who was stopping you. 315 00:16:39,802 --> 00:16:41,870 It was my school. 316 00:16:41,904 --> 00:16:44,172 I'm sorry? 317 00:16:44,206 --> 00:16:47,509 It was my school. 318 00:16:47,543 --> 00:16:50,445 The fence... the iron fence 319 00:16:50,479 --> 00:16:53,381 ran around the outside of the boarding school I went to. 320 00:16:53,416 --> 00:16:55,417 When was this? 321 00:16:55,451 --> 00:16:58,720 I... I was 12. 322 00:16:58,754 --> 00:17:00,755 - You were Max's age. - Yeah. 323 00:17:00,790 --> 00:17:04,025 Lancaster royal grammar school 324 00:17:04,059 --> 00:17:06,161 in the north of england. 325 00:17:06,195 --> 00:17:10,532 I wasn't there for very long, just a term and a half, but... 326 00:17:10,566 --> 00:17:12,534 well, my parents had already started 327 00:17:12,568 --> 00:17:14,536 to fight with each other. 328 00:17:14,570 --> 00:17:17,539 And yeah, it was our last year in dublin. 329 00:17:17,573 --> 00:17:19,474 And they sent me away to school. 330 00:17:19,508 --> 00:17:21,176 Was that hard for you? 331 00:17:21,210 --> 00:17:22,911 No, not at all. 332 00:17:22,945 --> 00:17:26,047 Most people talk about how miserable they are at boarding school, 333 00:17:26,081 --> 00:17:29,184 but I was really happy there. 334 00:17:29,218 --> 00:17:31,453 But I was there for less than six months 335 00:17:31,487 --> 00:17:34,189 when my father got his position 336 00:17:34,223 --> 00:17:36,758 at union memorial in Baltimore. 337 00:17:36,792 --> 00:17:40,795 Two weeks later we landed in... 338 00:17:40,830 --> 00:17:43,498 in America. 339 00:17:43,532 --> 00:17:45,467 Well, I'm... 340 00:17:45,501 --> 00:17:47,602 I'm sure that's part of the dream 341 00:17:47,636 --> 00:17:51,306 that I'm, you know, reliving... 342 00:17:51,340 --> 00:17:54,142 being torn away from school by my father, 343 00:17:54,176 --> 00:17:57,412 from that feeling that I had... 344 00:17:57,446 --> 00:18:00,648 that great feeling 345 00:18:00,683 --> 00:18:02,884 of contentment that I'd found there. 346 00:18:02,918 --> 00:18:06,521 Can you tell me what was so nice about the boarding school? 347 00:18:06,555 --> 00:18:08,523 The place was... 348 00:18:08,557 --> 00:18:12,360 was just filled with activity. 349 00:18:12,394 --> 00:18:15,730 There were scores of clubs 350 00:18:15,764 --> 00:18:18,166 and things that you could do, 351 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,235 teams you could sign up for... 352 00:18:20,269 --> 00:18:22,203 to play rugby, 353 00:18:22,238 --> 00:18:25,139 cross-country running, the school newspaper. 354 00:18:25,174 --> 00:18:28,009 It's just all these things 355 00:18:28,043 --> 00:18:31,679 my father tore me away from. 356 00:18:31,714 --> 00:18:34,516 Cross-country running... did you run at school? 357 00:18:34,550 --> 00:18:37,085 Well, I was going to join the team. 358 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,522 Did you play rugby, join the paper? 359 00:18:40,556 --> 00:18:42,624 Well, I was planning to. 360 00:18:42,658 --> 00:18:46,361 I'm not sure what you're getting at. 361 00:18:46,395 --> 00:18:49,864 The point I'm making is that I was happy there. 362 00:18:49,899 --> 00:18:53,735 Actively engaged, content. 363 00:18:53,769 --> 00:18:56,371 It's interesting to hear you speak of the school in this way, 364 00:18:56,405 --> 00:19:00,241 because in your dream you're running outside the gates. 365 00:19:00,276 --> 00:19:03,511 When you told me the dream, you described a feeling 366 00:19:03,546 --> 00:19:06,748 of anticipation, of excitement, 367 00:19:06,782 --> 00:19:08,683 not of contentment. 368 00:19:08,717 --> 00:19:12,053 To me that difference seems significant. 369 00:19:12,087 --> 00:19:14,956 You say you planned to join the newspaper? 370 00:19:14,990 --> 00:19:17,859 Well, I hadn't been there that long. 371 00:19:17,893 --> 00:19:19,694 A semester and a half? 372 00:19:19,728 --> 00:19:21,429 Surely that's enough time 373 00:19:21,463 --> 00:19:23,431 to join the paper if you'd wanted to. 374 00:19:23,465 --> 00:19:25,466 No, I'm just saying that if I had stayed, 375 00:19:25,501 --> 00:19:27,969 I would have thrived. 376 00:19:28,003 --> 00:19:31,306 It was my father moving here 377 00:19:31,340 --> 00:19:33,308 that just took away that possibility. 378 00:19:33,342 --> 00:19:35,343 And what did you find here instead? 379 00:19:35,377 --> 00:19:38,613 The move to Baltimore marked the end of my childhood. 380 00:19:38,647 --> 00:19:41,115 My father walked out; My mother got sicker; 381 00:19:41,150 --> 00:19:45,019 And I was... I was forced to... 382 00:19:45,054 --> 00:19:46,754 to take care of her. 383 00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:49,624 The beginning of a very difficult period. 384 00:19:49,658 --> 00:19:52,760 And your father bears a great deal of the responsibility. 385 00:19:52,795 --> 00:19:54,162 Yeah, who else? 386 00:19:54,196 --> 00:19:57,665 My mother... she was... she was ill. 387 00:19:57,700 --> 00:19:59,334 I understand. 388 00:19:59,368 --> 00:20:01,269 You mentioned more than once 389 00:20:01,303 --> 00:20:05,573 how strongly you identify with Sunil's alienation in this country, 390 00:20:05,608 --> 00:20:08,610 that you continue to feel it at times. 391 00:20:08,644 --> 00:20:11,779 And I imagine you felt it when you first arrived. 392 00:20:11,814 --> 00:20:13,748 Yes, I... 393 00:20:13,782 --> 00:20:18,553 I went from Lancaster royal grammar 394 00:20:18,587 --> 00:20:21,155 to p.S. 233, 395 00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:25,093 from beautiful gothic stone buildings 396 00:20:25,127 --> 00:20:27,061 and open green fields 397 00:20:27,096 --> 00:20:29,364 to brick and asphalt. 398 00:20:29,398 --> 00:20:31,265 That's tough for rugby. 399 00:20:31,300 --> 00:20:34,435 The kids played stickball. 400 00:20:34,470 --> 00:20:36,437 And I remember watching them 401 00:20:36,472 --> 00:20:39,574 with such determination 402 00:20:39,608 --> 00:20:41,476 from the edge of the schoolyard. 403 00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:43,911 Determination? What does that mean? 404 00:20:43,946 --> 00:20:45,880 I was... 405 00:20:45,914 --> 00:20:48,916 I was determined to decode them, 406 00:20:48,951 --> 00:20:50,718 you know, to figure them out... 407 00:20:50,753 --> 00:20:53,087 how to play their game, how to fit in. 408 00:20:53,122 --> 00:20:55,189 Because everything about them was alien... 409 00:20:55,224 --> 00:20:57,058 the music that they listened to, 410 00:20:57,092 --> 00:20:59,994 the clothes that they wore, even their curse words. 411 00:21:00,029 --> 00:21:03,464 And the girls... the girls... 412 00:21:03,499 --> 00:21:04,866 forget it. 413 00:21:04,900 --> 00:21:07,669 They wouldn't even look in my direction. 414 00:21:07,703 --> 00:21:10,738 You stayed on the edge of that schoolyard as well, 415 00:21:10,773 --> 00:21:12,707 outside the gates. 416 00:21:12,741 --> 00:21:15,977 I was trying to join in. I was trying to find my way. 417 00:21:16,011 --> 00:21:20,181 And I just... I just didn't get a chance to. 418 00:21:20,215 --> 00:21:22,250 You were pulled away again. 419 00:21:22,284 --> 00:21:24,318 Mm-hmm, yeah. 420 00:21:24,353 --> 00:21:26,320 How long was your family in America 421 00:21:26,355 --> 00:21:27,989 before your father walked out? 422 00:21:28,023 --> 00:21:30,358 18 months. 423 00:21:30,392 --> 00:21:32,994 A year and a half. 424 00:21:33,028 --> 00:21:36,998 Oh okay, I get the point you're trying to make... 425 00:21:37,032 --> 00:21:39,801 that I had time, like at boarding school, 426 00:21:39,835 --> 00:21:41,836 to join in. 427 00:21:41,870 --> 00:21:43,838 But see, the thing is, my father was... 428 00:21:43,872 --> 00:21:46,340 he was working really long hours. 429 00:21:46,375 --> 00:21:49,143 And my mother was already unwell. 430 00:21:49,178 --> 00:21:51,312 You were expected to stay home with her. 431 00:21:51,346 --> 00:21:54,682 Yes, I was. And I did. 432 00:21:56,418 --> 00:21:58,519 Yeah. 433 00:21:59,655 --> 00:22:01,723 It was a terrible blow. 434 00:22:01,757 --> 00:22:02,990 Was it? 435 00:22:03,025 --> 00:22:04,826 What do you mean? 436 00:22:04,860 --> 00:22:07,595 Was it a terrible blow or was it also a relief? 437 00:22:07,663 --> 00:22:10,164 - I was trying to be a good son. - I understand it. 438 00:22:10,199 --> 00:22:12,834 - Is that so awful? - Of course it's not awful. 439 00:22:12,868 --> 00:22:16,204 What I'm saying is that it may have been easier than the alternative. 440 00:22:16,238 --> 00:22:18,806 Do you think I wanted to spend my teenage years 441 00:22:18,841 --> 00:22:21,175 with my chronically ill mother? 442 00:22:21,210 --> 00:22:22,577 I mean... 443 00:22:25,814 --> 00:22:28,983 The first day I met you, you insisted 444 00:22:29,017 --> 00:22:31,719 that you and Gina had it all figured out, 445 00:22:31,754 --> 00:22:33,721 that your need to save people 446 00:22:33,756 --> 00:22:35,790 started with your mother's illness. 447 00:22:35,824 --> 00:22:37,825 And does that seem far-fetched to you? 448 00:22:37,860 --> 00:22:39,160 It doesn't. 449 00:22:39,194 --> 00:22:41,162 But I think caring for your mother 450 00:22:41,196 --> 00:22:43,698 was also a way of saving yourself. 451 00:22:43,732 --> 00:22:46,567 It was miserable, yes, 452 00:22:46,602 --> 00:22:48,569 but it was also safe 453 00:22:48,604 --> 00:22:50,638 and familiar. 454 00:22:50,672 --> 00:22:52,607 And it kept you from having to find 455 00:22:52,641 --> 00:22:54,876 any real connections elsewhere, 456 00:22:54,910 --> 00:22:59,113 from risking yourself in the outside world. 457 00:22:59,148 --> 00:23:01,682 And it also had the convenience 458 00:23:01,717 --> 00:23:05,453 of allowing you to blame it all on your father. 459 00:23:05,487 --> 00:23:07,388 And it's really not so different 460 00:23:07,422 --> 00:23:09,657 from what you do to this day, is it? 461 00:23:09,691 --> 00:23:14,195 You cloister yourself in your apartment 462 00:23:14,229 --> 00:23:17,098 or your burrow like office. 463 00:23:17,132 --> 00:23:19,834 You convince yourself you're sick. 464 00:23:19,868 --> 00:23:22,336 You accept a growing paralysis 465 00:23:22,371 --> 00:23:24,972 rather than taking a risk of finding 466 00:23:25,007 --> 00:23:28,810 where or towards whom your real passion lies. 467 00:23:28,844 --> 00:23:30,578 Is it any wonder 468 00:23:30,612 --> 00:23:35,516 you haven't found what drives you yet? 469 00:23:35,551 --> 00:23:37,451 You're 57 years old. 470 00:23:37,486 --> 00:23:39,654 At a certain point you have to move past 471 00:23:39,688 --> 00:23:42,757 the stories that you've assigned to your life, 472 00:23:42,791 --> 00:23:45,893 these steadfast explanations 473 00:23:45,928 --> 00:23:48,429 you've settled on years ago. 474 00:23:48,463 --> 00:23:52,333 You have to look at yourself again 475 00:23:52,367 --> 00:23:53,801 for real answers. 476 00:23:53,836 --> 00:23:57,004 You have to take that risk. 477 00:23:59,141 --> 00:24:01,108 Well... 478 00:24:01,143 --> 00:24:03,945 You're so young 479 00:24:03,979 --> 00:24:06,981 and yet you're so confident. 480 00:24:07,015 --> 00:24:08,683 About what? 481 00:24:08,717 --> 00:24:13,054 You just seem so certain that you're right. 482 00:24:13,088 --> 00:24:15,756 You see everything clearly. 483 00:24:15,791 --> 00:24:19,427 Do you think I see you clearly? 484 00:24:19,461 --> 00:24:22,296 Because I'd like to see you more clearly, 485 00:24:22,331 --> 00:24:24,632 but I find you're fairly expert 486 00:24:24,666 --> 00:24:26,701 at obscuring the view. 487 00:24:29,104 --> 00:24:32,106 That's not the first time you've heard that, is it? 488 00:24:32,140 --> 00:24:34,909 In so many words. 489 00:24:36,345 --> 00:24:39,046 I... I told you earlier 490 00:24:39,081 --> 00:24:41,449 that I was distracted 491 00:24:41,483 --> 00:24:45,052 when I was with Wendy. 492 00:24:45,087 --> 00:24:48,055 And you asked me what I was thinking about. 493 00:24:48,090 --> 00:24:51,058 And I said I didn't know. 494 00:24:51,093 --> 00:24:55,363 You asked me if I hold myself back, 495 00:24:55,397 --> 00:24:58,499 and I didn't answer. 496 00:25:00,936 --> 00:25:04,405 Well, I do hold myself back. 497 00:25:04,439 --> 00:25:06,807 Do you know why? 498 00:25:12,614 --> 00:25:15,316 I was thinking about you. 499 00:25:19,621 --> 00:25:22,223 I hear your voice 500 00:25:22,257 --> 00:25:25,826 a lot. 501 00:25:27,896 --> 00:25:31,365 I admire your clarity, your... 502 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,668 you see me. 503 00:25:34,970 --> 00:25:38,572 I noticed that you don't wear a wedding ring. 504 00:25:38,607 --> 00:25:41,175 And I've imagined 505 00:25:41,209 --> 00:25:45,279 that you might understand something of my life, 506 00:25:45,314 --> 00:25:49,650 my loneliness. 507 00:25:54,022 --> 00:25:56,290 I know, I know... 508 00:25:56,325 --> 00:25:58,025 textbook transference. 509 00:25:58,060 --> 00:26:01,896 I know it's ridiculous, a fantasy. 510 00:26:01,930 --> 00:26:04,765 And it's my comeuppance 511 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,668 for being on the receiving end of these sorts of feelings. 512 00:26:07,703 --> 00:26:11,405 But you did ask. 513 00:26:12,708 --> 00:26:15,576 I'm glad you answered. 514 00:26:15,610 --> 00:26:17,545 You look... 515 00:26:17,579 --> 00:26:20,247 you look kind of shocked. 516 00:26:20,282 --> 00:26:22,683 Why do you say that? 517 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:27,455 Nothing. 518 00:26:27,489 --> 00:26:30,091 Do you recognize what you're doing? 519 00:26:30,125 --> 00:26:33,861 You're holding yourself back again. 520 00:26:33,895 --> 00:26:35,896 As soon as you express your feelings, 521 00:26:35,931 --> 00:26:38,799 you dismiss them immediately, 522 00:26:38,834 --> 00:26:42,570 call it ridiculous, offer an excuse. 523 00:26:43,538 --> 00:26:44,805 What... 524 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,675 what exactly are you saying? 525 00:26:47,709 --> 00:26:51,846 I'm saying that between now and next session 526 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,116 you may want to think about why you do that. 527 00:26:55,150 --> 00:26:57,685 Are you telling me...? 528 00:26:57,719 --> 00:26:59,987 Are you trying to say...? 529 00:27:00,022 --> 00:27:02,523 We have to stop. 530 00:27:02,557 --> 00:27:05,860 Let's pick this up next week. 531 00:27:05,894 --> 00:27:09,063 This will be an excellent place to start. 532 00:27:09,097 --> 00:27:12,600 Okay. 533 00:27:18,974 --> 00:27:21,242 We'll talk more next week. 534 00:27:23,378 --> 00:27:26,313 Have a good weekend. 535 00:27:36,758 --> 00:27:40,758 Sync by n17t01 www.addic7ed.com