1 00:00:00,175 --> 00:00:02,074 Previously, on In Treatment... 2 00:00:02,698 --> 00:00:06,000 You know, you've never once taken responsibility for what you did. 3 00:00:06,262 --> 00:00:08,961 You never once said: "I'm sorry, I made a mistake." 4 00:00:09,223 --> 00:00:10,786 He's not willing to forgive me 5 00:00:10,956 --> 00:00:13,300 because he hasn't made up his mind about this woman yet. 6 00:00:13,470 --> 00:00:15,259 Another thing we haven't talked about: 7 00:00:15,479 --> 00:00:17,715 the kind of mother you've been. Can we talk about it? 8 00:00:17,885 --> 00:00:21,361 You should really be quiet right now. You're sort of embarrassing yourself. 9 00:00:21,531 --> 00:00:23,392 You said that I might have pushed 10 00:00:23,654 --> 00:00:27,521 Kate into her affair because of my feelings for Laura. 11 00:00:27,783 --> 00:00:30,858 - Maybe it's the other way around. - You're both going through something. 12 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:32,943 She's struggling with the dynamic 13 00:00:33,205 --> 00:00:34,903 that existing before you met. 14 00:00:35,165 --> 00:00:37,531 And you're looking for that younger woman 15 00:00:37,793 --> 00:00:40,618 who looks up to you the way Kate used to. 16 00:00:41,104 --> 00:00:43,607 That's great. That's just really great. 17 00:00:51,097 --> 00:00:52,180 How are you? 18 00:00:53,027 --> 00:00:54,715 So obviously, Kate 19 00:00:54,977 --> 00:00:56,898 isn't coming today? 20 00:00:57,068 --> 00:00:58,927 Yes, she left me a message. 21 00:00:59,189 --> 00:01:01,472 She really didn't go into why, though. 22 00:01:01,734 --> 00:01:05,017 She said that she was tired of going back and forth, 23 00:01:05,279 --> 00:01:08,646 and just tired to try to find out who has started what 24 00:01:08,908 --> 00:01:11,273 and who's guilty of what and who's reacting to what... 25 00:01:11,918 --> 00:01:14,318 She wants to decide on her own, basically. 26 00:01:16,108 --> 00:01:17,780 I have to respect that. 27 00:01:21,256 --> 00:01:23,705 Transcript: Anyone, Coffee, Tagne. 28 00:01:24,486 --> 00:01:27,014 Sync by: Anyone, Coffee, Tagne. 29 00:01:27,776 --> 00:01:31,111 Week 8 - Episode 40. 30 00:01:36,709 --> 00:01:39,550 How do you think our sessions with Kate went? 31 00:01:39,980 --> 00:01:41,647 I'd say they were chaotic. 32 00:01:41,817 --> 00:01:44,668 I was a little annoyed with you over that but I suppose 33 00:01:44,838 --> 00:01:46,308 I'm partly at fault too. 34 00:01:46,876 --> 00:01:50,781 And I also think that she felt sandwiched between two therapists. 35 00:01:51,757 --> 00:01:53,482 I do have to say though 36 00:01:53,744 --> 00:01:57,194 that you did manage to make connections that resonated with both of us, 37 00:01:57,456 --> 00:01:59,071 especially with Kate. 38 00:01:59,333 --> 00:02:02,080 Whether anything is gonna come off that I don't... 39 00:02:02,250 --> 00:02:04,051 I don't really know. 40 00:02:07,081 --> 00:02:08,531 You know who I envy? 41 00:02:09,563 --> 00:02:10,449 Writers. 44 00:02:16,540 --> 00:02:19,573 let them live or die, or let them be happy 45 00:02:19,743 --> 00:02:22,970 or unhappy, let them be failures or successes. 46 00:02:23,232 --> 00:02:25,199 You wanna write everybody's story for them? 47 00:02:26,708 --> 00:02:28,617 I really think I'd be a shitty writer. 48 00:02:28,787 --> 00:02:31,437 I'd want to give everybody a happy ending. 49 00:02:38,374 --> 00:02:40,404 I'm very sorry about your patient. 50 00:02:45,149 --> 00:02:46,654 Yeah... Thanks. 51 00:02:48,244 --> 00:02:50,622 Not the ending I would have written for him. 52 00:02:52,290 --> 00:02:53,919 The funeral, Jesus Christ. 53 00:02:54,089 --> 00:02:56,462 I'd forgotten how awful funerals are. 54 00:02:56,724 --> 00:02:58,617 That dreadful sense that... 55 00:02:59,948 --> 00:03:02,426 That in the end, there's only silence... 56 00:03:02,688 --> 00:03:06,305 You think as therapists, we'd have better tools to walk through it. 57 00:03:06,723 --> 00:03:09,616 Well, I don't. I feel the same sense of... 58 00:03:11,088 --> 00:03:14,021 futility and hopelessness as the next guy. 59 00:03:15,564 --> 00:03:19,359 You know what's also interesting is seeing the relatives of patients 60 00:03:19,621 --> 00:03:22,362 you've treated. Their participance in the stories that you've heard 61 00:03:22,624 --> 00:03:26,100 a dozen of times, the father, the son, the brother, whoever. 62 00:03:27,078 --> 00:03:30,621 We think we know them. But we don't really know them at all. 63 00:03:31,133 --> 00:03:34,702 We know reactions of them, the versions of them 64 00:03:35,041 --> 00:03:36,503 idealized or vilified.... 65 00:03:38,244 --> 00:03:39,954 I was really struggling to reconcile 66 00:03:40,124 --> 00:03:42,466 this image that I had of Alex's wife 67 00:03:42,728 --> 00:03:44,652 with the woman that I saw there. 68 00:03:44,822 --> 00:03:47,347 He always described her as a demanding, exacting 69 00:03:47,984 --> 00:03:50,224 a constant source of pressure in his life. 70 00:03:50,394 --> 00:03:52,944 But I looked over and I just saw this... 71 00:03:56,206 --> 00:03:57,398 broken woman. 72 00:03:58,181 --> 00:04:00,276 She seems so soft and gentle. 73 00:04:00,666 --> 00:04:02,612 'Cause I'll never really know her now. 74 00:04:03,057 --> 00:04:05,782 - Does that bother you? - It does bother me. 75 00:04:06,042 --> 00:04:08,419 I ask myself all the time if I actually know 76 00:04:08,589 --> 00:04:10,622 what I think I know about my patients' lives. 77 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:12,849 That couple, for example. 78 00:04:13,019 --> 00:04:15,606 The one who were trying to have 79 00:04:15,923 --> 00:04:17,085 the baby. Amy. 80 00:04:17,829 --> 00:04:20,129 I don't think she can ever really be known. 81 00:04:20,389 --> 00:04:23,959 I mean, there are certain patterns that identified themselves 82 00:04:24,459 --> 00:04:25,468 from her past. 83 00:04:26,300 --> 00:04:27,345 But I cannot... 84 00:04:27,931 --> 00:04:29,267 shrink her. 85 00:04:30,271 --> 00:04:33,017 She's too complicated. And then I say to myself: 86 00:04:33,277 --> 00:04:35,663 "Do I really know any of these people? 87 00:04:36,042 --> 00:04:38,677 "Or are they all just one big fiction 88 00:04:39,141 --> 00:04:41,813 "that I've constructed in my head," you know? 89 00:04:42,329 --> 00:04:44,737 Sometimes I dream about the family members 90 00:04:44,997 --> 00:04:46,965 of patients that I'm treating. 91 00:04:47,242 --> 00:04:50,061 - People I've never met. - Yeah, it's curious. 92 00:04:50,795 --> 00:04:52,265 Apart from your.... 93 00:04:52,435 --> 00:04:54,831 intense connection with your patients, 94 00:04:55,091 --> 00:04:57,065 you're also now talking about 95 00:04:57,571 --> 00:05:01,091 I don't know, longing for your patients' family and friends. 96 00:05:02,006 --> 00:05:04,361 What do you mean by that, "a longing"? 97 00:05:04,531 --> 00:05:06,649 Maybe that's not the right word. 98 00:05:07,603 --> 00:05:10,638 Do you mean curiosity about the lives of other people? 99 00:05:10,898 --> 00:05:14,559 Isn't that an aspect of what we do? It's just... It's curiosity. 100 00:05:14,819 --> 00:05:17,319 We're supposed to be fascinated 101 00:05:17,489 --> 00:05:19,731 by how people behave. At least... 102 00:05:21,006 --> 00:05:22,460 At least I think so. 103 00:05:27,198 --> 00:05:29,647 Alex's death left me with this very strong feeling 104 00:05:29,817 --> 00:05:31,266 that I was like... 105 00:05:31,436 --> 00:05:33,716 a repository, really. A trustee. 106 00:05:36,183 --> 00:05:39,626 The things that he never told anybody else, his private thoughts. 107 00:05:39,886 --> 00:05:42,528 They've stayed with me, they're inside me. 108 00:05:43,503 --> 00:05:45,173 A big part of his life is 109 00:05:45,734 --> 00:05:47,592 is in vault I have inside me. 110 00:05:47,852 --> 00:05:49,531 No. A part of his life, 111 00:05:49,701 --> 00:05:52,066 maybe, but not necessarily a big part. 112 00:05:53,441 --> 00:05:56,267 - You were his therapist. - Only his therapist. 113 00:05:56,527 --> 00:05:59,896 I know you've always been of two minds in relation to this 114 00:06:00,156 --> 00:06:01,447 that therapy is 115 00:06:01,617 --> 00:06:04,379 more than a discipline, that it's actually a religion, 116 00:06:04,549 --> 00:06:07,804 but you also say we're therapists, so we can't really... 117 00:06:08,468 --> 00:06:11,574 run our patients lives for them. As soon as they walk out the door, 118 00:06:11,834 --> 00:06:13,915 they're on their own, yeah? 119 00:06:19,217 --> 00:06:22,502 How would you describe Alex's state of mind when you last saw him? 120 00:06:23,246 --> 00:06:25,196 I'd say he was pretty fragile, 121 00:06:25,769 --> 00:06:27,352 if I remember well, yeah. 122 00:06:27,522 --> 00:06:31,454 The ironic thing is that we'd really made some good progress, and he just... 123 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:33,989 seemed to regress. It was like... 124 00:06:34,740 --> 00:06:37,538 He felt that he was so close to a breakthrough 125 00:06:37,708 --> 00:06:40,795 that it scared him. It was too much, and he just... 126 00:06:43,562 --> 00:06:45,108 He turned away from it really. 127 00:06:46,027 --> 00:06:49,070 Are you feeling in any way responsible for his death? 128 00:06:56,028 --> 00:06:58,432 You know, I'm friendly with a psychiatrist 129 00:06:58,602 --> 00:07:00,623 that consults for the Navy, Alfonso Casilles. 130 00:07:00,883 --> 00:07:02,642 - You remember him? - Yeah. 131 00:07:02,812 --> 00:07:05,253 Well, I asked him if he could find out anything. 132 00:07:05,513 --> 00:07:06,771 He said vertigo. 133 00:07:07,735 --> 00:07:10,091 It means that there's nothing wrong with the equipment. 134 00:07:10,351 --> 00:07:12,361 They were doing some kind of combat exercise. 135 00:07:12,531 --> 00:07:14,505 The plane he was chasing descended, 136 00:07:14,675 --> 00:07:18,017 Alex went into what they call vertigo and lost control. 137 00:07:19,256 --> 00:07:20,533 That's their... 138 00:07:21,342 --> 00:07:22,603 official conclusion. 139 00:07:26,579 --> 00:07:29,347 - I think he killed himself. - How can you be sure of that? 140 00:07:29,517 --> 00:07:32,739 Look, his life was a tragedy from the second he was born. 141 00:07:32,999 --> 00:07:35,867 His childhood, his relationship with his father, up to 142 00:07:36,127 --> 00:07:38,494 when he pushed the button and killed a room full of kids. 143 00:07:38,754 --> 00:07:40,644 How do you live with that? 144 00:07:41,105 --> 00:07:44,333 Even with the gadgets that they have now, they reduce people to dots 145 00:07:44,593 --> 00:07:47,059 on a video screen. All the spin from the Navy, 146 00:07:47,229 --> 00:07:50,158 none of it made any difference to him. It didn't work on him. 147 00:07:50,328 --> 00:07:53,764 He felt every single one of those deaths, I know he did. 148 00:07:59,049 --> 00:08:00,784 So many expectations... 149 00:08:03,387 --> 00:08:05,312 The best and the brightest. 150 00:08:07,553 --> 00:08:08,384 He was. 151 00:08:10,312 --> 00:08:11,262 He was... 152 00:08:11,548 --> 00:08:13,187 so strong physically, 153 00:08:13,873 --> 00:08:14,818 handsome, 154 00:08:15,563 --> 00:08:17,605 intelligent. Under all that... 155 00:08:18,225 --> 00:08:19,746 kind of posturing 156 00:08:19,916 --> 00:08:22,666 and male posing that he did, he was really... 157 00:08:28,021 --> 00:08:29,379 He was a good guy. 158 00:08:31,232 --> 00:08:32,227 Charming. 159 00:08:33,568 --> 00:08:37,055 He was endearing, you know. He looked and he sounded like 160 00:08:37,676 --> 00:08:39,388 what they call a winner. 161 00:08:39,752 --> 00:08:41,808 Suddenly, he becomes a murderer. 162 00:08:42,068 --> 00:08:43,818 How do you reconcile that? 163 00:08:46,028 --> 00:08:49,148 - I think that's what really killed him. - "Endearing"? 164 00:08:50,005 --> 00:08:52,689 I have never heard you talk about him like that. 165 00:08:52,859 --> 00:08:54,324 Quite the opposite. 166 00:08:54,494 --> 00:08:56,489 Actually, he was kind of a funny guy. 167 00:08:56,749 --> 00:08:57,699 He was... 168 00:08:59,818 --> 00:09:02,395 I don't know. Am I already beginning to... 169 00:09:02,873 --> 00:09:04,747 idealizing? Yeah, maybe. 170 00:09:05,109 --> 00:09:06,892 Well, it's not uncommon, 171 00:09:07,662 --> 00:09:09,124 after such a shock. 172 00:09:09,512 --> 00:09:12,171 He gave me the chance to stop him from flying. 173 00:09:12,341 --> 00:09:13,219 Literally? 174 00:09:13,593 --> 00:09:15,591 Did he really offer that or are you projecting? 175 00:09:15,851 --> 00:09:18,594 He asked me directly, "Should I fly?" 176 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:20,156 What did you say? 177 00:09:20,326 --> 00:09:22,699 I told him I was very concerned about his... 178 00:09:22,869 --> 00:09:25,476 - About his state of mind. - You said that clearly? 179 00:09:27,239 --> 00:09:30,583 But he wanted me to say it unequivocally. "Do not fly". 180 00:09:30,753 --> 00:09:32,484 It's not your place, Paul. 181 00:09:33,119 --> 00:09:36,896 A patient can't ask you to take his life into your hands. 182 00:09:37,087 --> 00:09:39,574 It's not your place to say; "Don't fly". 183 00:09:40,291 --> 00:09:44,207 Anymore than it's your place to say to that couple, "Have an abortion". 184 00:09:44,672 --> 00:09:47,915 Or to Laura, "Marry or don't marry your fiancé". 185 00:09:48,848 --> 00:09:51,460 I should have sent the Navy an evaluation. 186 00:09:51,721 --> 00:09:54,995 "Guilt-ridden. Wants to punish himself. Shouldn't fly." 187 00:09:57,063 --> 00:09:59,892 Alex's dad came into the office to... 188 00:10:01,284 --> 00:10:02,096 To talk. 189 00:10:03,053 --> 00:10:06,931 So I had this poor guy yelling at me, saying that his son's repression 190 00:10:07,787 --> 00:10:10,225 was what had kept him alive all the time 191 00:10:10,395 --> 00:10:13,906 and that therapy, the stuff that he was doing with me, was... 192 00:10:16,142 --> 00:10:19,042 - The therapy was what had killed him. - Oh God, Paul. 193 00:10:19,212 --> 00:10:23,175 Up in the air at Mach 5, he's not supposed to have emotions. 194 00:10:23,502 --> 00:10:27,440 He's not supposed to think. That's actually why he crashed. 195 00:10:32,081 --> 00:10:34,673 He was very different from what I imagined also. 196 00:10:34,843 --> 00:10:37,678 He was riddled, you know, with his own guilt. 197 00:10:40,299 --> 00:10:42,359 Actually, he did make a couple of good points. 198 00:10:42,529 --> 00:10:45,680 He said things were in the unconscious for a reason because the mind 199 00:10:45,941 --> 00:10:48,796 can not live or breathe or take a single step 200 00:10:48,966 --> 00:10:51,621 if everything that lies dormant in it were... 201 00:10:51,791 --> 00:10:53,752 out there in daylight, fully lay out. 202 00:10:53,922 --> 00:10:56,999 That a fully conscious human being would be paralyzed, 203 00:10:57,169 --> 00:10:58,856 would be like a cripple. 204 00:11:00,092 --> 00:11:02,406 Alex didn't need to be conscious, 205 00:11:02,666 --> 00:11:04,984 but just merely efficient. 206 00:11:07,012 --> 00:11:10,672 Do you really accept that? That life is better lived unexamined. 207 00:11:11,592 --> 00:11:12,725 And when... 208 00:11:13,388 --> 00:11:16,906 anxiety and fear and pain bubble up from below, 209 00:11:17,327 --> 00:11:20,434 how can that be dealt with, except by looking at it? 210 00:11:20,793 --> 00:11:22,260 Except by analyzing it? 211 00:11:23,236 --> 00:11:24,929 We don't run the show, Paul. 212 00:11:25,189 --> 00:11:26,848 I sometimes think 213 00:11:27,018 --> 00:11:29,725 that therapists can start to imagine they're like writers, 214 00:11:30,377 --> 00:11:33,051 you know, that they can control the outcome. 215 00:11:33,656 --> 00:11:37,441 We don't live their lives for them, we don't even live them with them. 216 00:11:37,701 --> 00:11:40,170 I know that you want to believe that we really do have 217 00:11:40,340 --> 00:11:42,655 an influence that's always positive. 218 00:11:42,915 --> 00:11:45,827 - We help people to understand. - Understand what they're feeling 219 00:11:45,997 --> 00:11:49,126 and after that, if they make a wrong turn, then it's not our fault, 220 00:11:49,296 --> 00:11:50,710 it's human error. 221 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:51,715 But... 222 00:11:52,362 --> 00:11:53,165 Anyway. 223 00:11:53,554 --> 00:11:56,085 - Who're you really angry at? - Myself, obviously. 224 00:11:56,754 --> 00:12:00,498 You. Every therapist from Freud to Mitchell. 225 00:12:00,668 --> 00:12:01,468 Why? 226 00:12:02,189 --> 00:12:06,137 Because we force patients to look at themselves 227 00:12:06,969 --> 00:12:09,477 and pat ourselves on the back for it. 228 00:12:09,826 --> 00:12:12,039 Then we say to them, "Here's what's wrong with you, 229 00:12:12,209 --> 00:12:13,519 "now off you go." 230 00:12:15,487 --> 00:12:17,523 Did you feel this way before Alex died? 231 00:12:17,783 --> 00:12:19,025 More or less, yeah. 232 00:12:19,285 --> 00:12:21,610 Has it been on your mind recently in any other context? 233 00:12:21,870 --> 00:12:22,820 Like what? 234 00:12:23,326 --> 00:12:25,129 I'm asking. Have... 235 00:12:25,299 --> 00:12:28,240 other patients, other than Alex made you think like this? 236 00:12:28,410 --> 00:12:31,567 - You're insinuating. - No, I'm just trying to get a sense, 237 00:12:31,922 --> 00:12:33,093 a history... 238 00:12:34,258 --> 00:12:36,751 of these feelings about psychotherapy. 239 00:12:37,011 --> 00:12:39,701 You mean, if I've been wondering for a while if our... 240 00:12:39,871 --> 00:12:42,673 profession is actually helpful to people? 241 00:12:43,073 --> 00:12:45,634 Yes, I have. I think about it every day. 242 00:12:47,479 --> 00:12:49,889 So you feel you're not able to help your patients? 243 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,509 The gymnast, for example, Sophie? 244 00:12:55,211 --> 00:12:57,395 Honestly, I feel like she made a lot of progress. 245 00:12:57,565 --> 00:13:00,181 We connected, there was a bound between us. 246 00:13:00,351 --> 00:13:02,401 But I think it was the personal relationship 247 00:13:03,010 --> 00:13:05,711 that helped her, not the therapeutic process. 248 00:13:05,881 --> 00:13:07,858 You know, maybe Yallom is right. 249 00:13:08,028 --> 00:13:11,027 Maybe it is the relationship that actually heals. 250 00:13:11,853 --> 00:13:15,611 But that other couple, Jake and Amy, I can not tell you, honestly, 251 00:13:16,001 --> 00:13:19,108 if they're better off together or apart. 252 00:13:19,278 --> 00:13:21,786 I don't know if I helped them at all. 253 00:13:24,635 --> 00:13:25,828 Anyway. 254 00:13:29,106 --> 00:13:30,429 Are you okay, Paul? 255 00:13:30,867 --> 00:13:33,015 I think I'm tired, Gina. 256 00:13:33,385 --> 00:13:34,913 Put your feet up. 257 00:13:50,323 --> 00:13:53,569 You know Alex said... He was talking about... 258 00:13:54,038 --> 00:13:55,961 vertigo and he said that 259 00:13:56,863 --> 00:13:58,241 when it happens, 260 00:13:58,411 --> 00:14:01,763 they're supposed to trust their instruments and not their senses. 261 00:14:01,933 --> 00:14:02,962 That's right. 262 00:14:03,850 --> 00:14:06,327 - How do you know that? - I once had a boyfriend 263 00:14:06,497 --> 00:14:08,411 who was a commercial pilot. 264 00:14:08,581 --> 00:14:10,082 This is before David. 265 00:14:10,874 --> 00:14:12,138 He taught me that. 266 00:14:14,362 --> 00:14:15,799 Among other things. 267 00:14:19,279 --> 00:14:20,250 Yes, Paul. 268 00:14:21,045 --> 00:14:23,436 I have been more than a sleepy spider. 269 00:14:25,031 --> 00:14:26,647 So it seems. 270 00:14:30,145 --> 00:14:32,491 Anyway, I think it's the opposite for a psychologist. 271 00:14:33,246 --> 00:14:36,120 I think we'd be far more effective if we relied less on 272 00:14:36,991 --> 00:14:40,783 instruments and theories and books and more on our own instincts. 273 00:14:41,598 --> 00:14:45,588 So all your training, all your knowledge can lead you astray? 274 00:14:46,594 --> 00:14:47,714 I think so. 275 00:14:48,565 --> 00:14:52,428 Do you feel this generally or about certain patients in particular? 276 00:14:53,627 --> 00:14:56,075 What do you mean? What is it, Gina? 277 00:14:57,334 --> 00:14:58,134 What? 278 00:14:59,639 --> 00:15:01,896 You've got that look of yours. 279 00:15:02,644 --> 00:15:05,065 - What look is that? - You have the look that says 280 00:15:05,325 --> 00:15:06,845 "I have a theory". 281 00:15:08,249 --> 00:15:09,945 - Regarding what? - Come on, Gina, 282 00:15:10,205 --> 00:15:12,250 cut the crap. Just tell me what you think. 283 00:15:12,420 --> 00:15:15,075 I'm just sitting here, listening to you. I'm listening 284 00:15:15,336 --> 00:15:18,621 to your newfound theories about the uselessness of psychotherapy. 285 00:15:18,881 --> 00:15:22,291 "Certain patients in particular"? 286 00:15:27,193 --> 00:15:29,965 Come on. We're back to Laura, again. 287 00:15:31,149 --> 00:15:31,955 Are we? 288 00:15:32,125 --> 00:15:34,678 You think everything is a reaction to Laura. 289 00:15:35,128 --> 00:15:38,098 - What's a reaction? - Me criticizing psychology, 290 00:15:38,358 --> 00:15:40,964 dismissing theories. You think I'm making an excuse. 291 00:15:41,134 --> 00:15:44,230 Even Alex getting killed, that's an excuse, right? 292 00:15:44,630 --> 00:15:46,680 Psychology is collapsing so 293 00:15:47,034 --> 00:15:50,486 I might as well sleep with Laura. I think that's kind of the way you're... 294 00:15:50,746 --> 00:15:52,821 - Is that what I'm thinking? - Am I wrong? 295 00:15:53,281 --> 00:15:56,367 When you guess what I'm thinking it's always about Laura. 296 00:15:57,053 --> 00:15:59,099 Like I assume that everything you say 297 00:15:59,269 --> 00:16:00,996 - is connected to her. - Don't you? 298 00:16:01,743 --> 00:16:03,666 You're the one who brought her up. 299 00:16:03,926 --> 00:16:05,876 I'm not talking about Laura. 300 00:16:06,384 --> 00:16:08,379 I'm talking about the fact that... 301 00:16:08,639 --> 00:16:12,014 I am having trouble lately believing in this... 302 00:16:12,722 --> 00:16:14,801 - religion of yours. - Of mine? 303 00:16:15,395 --> 00:16:18,556 I don't think traditional psychology answers anything anymore. 304 00:16:19,815 --> 00:16:22,511 You have two extremes, right? You have pop psychology, 305 00:16:22,681 --> 00:16:24,754 you've got these celebrity therapists 306 00:16:24,924 --> 00:16:27,565 writing best-sellers, getting on talk shows, 307 00:16:27,825 --> 00:16:30,571 making some miserable couple wipe on television. 308 00:16:30,741 --> 00:16:33,687 It's kind of a pornography. And then, on the other hand, you've got 309 00:16:33,857 --> 00:16:34,947 the experts. 310 00:16:35,385 --> 00:16:37,861 Psychologists like you, orthodox. 311 00:16:38,031 --> 00:16:39,535 Authority figures. 312 00:16:39,795 --> 00:16:42,523 Everything under control and supervised, 313 00:16:42,693 --> 00:16:45,791 examined under a bright light, examined to death. 314 00:16:46,308 --> 00:16:50,212 Completely and utterly divorced from real life. 315 00:16:50,650 --> 00:16:52,131 Am I divorced from real life? 316 00:16:52,391 --> 00:16:54,800 Gina, you've never lived outside this room! 317 00:16:55,250 --> 00:16:56,399 The Institute, 318 00:16:57,117 --> 00:16:58,387 the graduate program, 319 00:16:58,647 --> 00:17:00,779 David's world and after David... 320 00:17:00,949 --> 00:17:03,045 died, you locked yourself up in here. 321 00:17:03,215 --> 00:17:05,534 I mean, it's a beautiful room. Look at it. 322 00:17:05,704 --> 00:17:08,740 Beautifully appointed, everything is in its place. 323 00:17:09,092 --> 00:17:11,900 But you sit in here, and what do you do? 324 00:17:12,465 --> 00:17:13,815 You write fiction! 325 00:17:14,526 --> 00:17:17,573 About how life could have been, should have been. 326 00:17:18,806 --> 00:17:20,650 Is that what I'm writing? 327 00:17:22,476 --> 00:17:24,078 Just ask yourself, as a therapist, 328 00:17:24,339 --> 00:17:27,207 can you really help anybody, if you live in a bubble? 329 00:17:28,404 --> 00:17:30,502 So now, I'm a sleepy spider in a bubble? 330 00:17:31,081 --> 00:17:33,047 Look, I don't want to upset you Gina, I... 331 00:17:33,488 --> 00:17:34,526 You won't. 332 00:17:36,513 --> 00:17:38,169 I forgot, of course... 333 00:17:38,339 --> 00:17:40,202 You don't get upset. 334 00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:42,347 You never lose it. 335 00:17:44,264 --> 00:17:46,636 I've lost it here with you, 336 00:17:47,091 --> 00:17:49,801 several times in the past few weeks. 337 00:17:54,836 --> 00:17:58,572 - Why are you trying to provoke me? - I am not trying to provoke you. 338 00:17:58,833 --> 00:18:01,909 I just don't want to end up like this. 339 00:18:02,298 --> 00:18:03,340 Is this it? 340 00:18:07,706 --> 00:18:09,750 Is this how therapists live out their lives? 341 00:18:10,723 --> 00:18:12,002 You are perverse. 342 00:18:12,449 --> 00:18:15,731 You know, something real and powerful came into your life, 343 00:18:15,901 --> 00:18:17,653 and you never gave it a chance. 344 00:18:17,823 --> 00:18:20,377 Not for Charlie's sake or for yours. 345 00:18:21,363 --> 00:18:23,514 I know you said it was because he was a patient. 346 00:18:23,775 --> 00:18:25,426 But you know what I think? 347 00:18:25,596 --> 00:18:27,225 I think it was bullshit. 348 00:18:27,486 --> 00:18:30,201 - Paul, be careful. - You were terrified. 349 00:18:30,510 --> 00:18:34,501 Charlie told me that you were the biggest loss in his life. 350 00:18:35,713 --> 00:18:38,563 That his whole life could have been different. 351 00:18:39,456 --> 00:18:41,657 You have no idea what you're talking about. 352 00:18:46,421 --> 00:18:48,577 And after all these years, Paul, 353 00:18:49,362 --> 00:18:50,457 you don't know me. 354 00:18:53,588 --> 00:18:55,938 You wanna know what I struggle with? 355 00:18:56,775 --> 00:18:59,013 It's not that I'm too reserved, 356 00:18:59,858 --> 00:19:01,068 too detached, 357 00:19:02,912 --> 00:19:04,812 it's that I'm too emotional. 358 00:19:05,524 --> 00:19:07,891 I'm impulsive and emotional. 359 00:19:08,213 --> 00:19:11,237 And I give myself over right away. And passionately. 360 00:19:12,278 --> 00:19:13,628 I pour myself out. 361 00:19:15,277 --> 00:19:18,193 Can't you see that I'm protecting myself? 362 00:19:19,217 --> 00:19:22,651 Because I'm afraid I get carried away, I won't be able to think, 363 00:19:22,821 --> 00:19:25,534 I won't be able to analyze, I won't be able to work. 364 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,905 You've created this cold version of me 365 00:19:30,075 --> 00:19:32,559 that's limiting and castrating. 366 00:19:34,379 --> 00:19:35,436 Because, 367 00:19:36,778 --> 00:19:38,628 when you're arguing with me, 368 00:19:38,798 --> 00:19:42,759 you want to see yourself as battling the forces of repression. 369 00:19:44,232 --> 00:19:45,758 And if the truth is 370 00:19:46,337 --> 00:19:49,801 that I am an emotional person who has to rein herself in, 371 00:19:50,306 --> 00:19:53,061 it doesn't fit with what you need now, does it? 372 00:20:04,781 --> 00:20:06,751 Of course, I wanted Charlie. 373 00:20:11,791 --> 00:20:15,478 He was the most alive person I ever met. 374 00:20:15,648 --> 00:20:18,698 I wanted to sleep with him, I wanted to eat him up. 375 00:20:20,077 --> 00:20:21,006 But I didn't. 376 00:20:22,907 --> 00:20:24,750 And not because of ethics. 377 00:20:26,276 --> 00:20:29,799 I may have told him that it was because he was a patient. 378 00:20:30,776 --> 00:20:32,672 But the real reason was David. 379 00:20:32,842 --> 00:20:36,605 Even though David cheated on me for... however many years. 380 00:20:40,354 --> 00:20:41,927 I knew that all along. 381 00:20:42,279 --> 00:20:44,452 He was really shitty at hiding it. 382 00:20:47,403 --> 00:20:49,753 I didn't sleep with Charlie because... 383 00:20:52,239 --> 00:20:54,227 that's not who I wanted to be. 384 00:20:55,726 --> 00:20:59,035 I loved David, and I loved the life we had. 385 00:20:59,833 --> 00:21:03,696 And who I was with him. I loved myself with David. 386 00:21:05,067 --> 00:21:06,288 David's Gina. 387 00:21:16,648 --> 00:21:18,063 And you know what? 388 00:21:23,912 --> 00:21:25,811 When I was standing over... 389 00:21:30,416 --> 00:21:32,213 his grave at funeral, 390 00:21:34,173 --> 00:21:35,218 I felt... 391 00:21:37,108 --> 00:21:40,243 if I was magically reborn, 392 00:21:41,751 --> 00:21:44,217 I would choose him all over again. 393 00:21:48,937 --> 00:21:50,470 For all his faults, 394 00:21:52,966 --> 00:21:55,477 he allowed me to be who I wanted to be. 395 00:22:03,088 --> 00:22:05,109 I'm surprised you didn't see it. 396 00:22:05,569 --> 00:22:07,460 How crazy I was about him. 397 00:22:08,329 --> 00:22:09,750 He was everything. 398 00:22:13,057 --> 00:22:15,941 - I never heard you say it. - Oh shit! 399 00:22:16,855 --> 00:22:18,748 Everything has to be said? 400 00:22:22,362 --> 00:22:25,816 Then now, I have to sit here and listen to your crappy, 401 00:22:25,986 --> 00:22:28,194 nearsighted, self-involved 402 00:22:28,793 --> 00:22:31,258 theories about my life. 403 00:22:33,090 --> 00:22:34,389 Oh, God. 404 00:22:37,983 --> 00:22:39,150 Listen to us. 405 00:22:39,674 --> 00:22:41,270 You know, I slap you, 406 00:22:41,531 --> 00:22:42,938 and you punch me. 407 00:22:46,525 --> 00:22:49,348 Sometimes I tell myself it's constructive but, 408 00:22:50,792 --> 00:22:53,784 you know, I'm not so sure anymore, maybe we should stop. 409 00:23:00,137 --> 00:23:02,665 You've been fighting me for two months. 410 00:23:03,712 --> 00:23:05,562 Saying Laura, Laura, Laura. 411 00:23:07,089 --> 00:23:10,296 And you've been waiting for this imaginary Gina of yours 412 00:23:10,466 --> 00:23:12,652 to jump in and stop you? 413 00:23:19,091 --> 00:23:21,202 I'm not what's stopping you. 414 00:23:23,022 --> 00:23:24,783 You're fighting yourself. 415 00:23:27,028 --> 00:23:29,078 It's up to you, it's like Alex. 416 00:23:30,660 --> 00:23:33,949 You carefully looked at his life, you opened doors for him. 417 00:23:34,570 --> 00:23:36,204 You gave him insight. 418 00:23:37,212 --> 00:23:38,902 But his life was his. 419 00:23:39,901 --> 00:23:41,720 And he decided to fly. 420 00:23:44,154 --> 00:23:45,790 Now, you decide. 421 00:23:47,176 --> 00:23:48,503 Perhaps, you're right. 422 00:23:48,673 --> 00:23:51,708 Maybe love can bloom in a therapist office. 423 00:23:53,895 --> 00:23:57,237 Ethics and rules, love is bigger than any rules. 424 00:23:59,533 --> 00:24:01,101 And what do I know? 425 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,240 Maybe she's your David. 426 00:24:04,698 --> 00:24:07,951 Maybe you can only be the Paul you want to be... 427 00:24:08,121 --> 00:24:09,125 with her. 428 00:24:12,027 --> 00:24:12,827 So, 429 00:24:13,197 --> 00:24:14,243 go to her. 430 00:24:16,653 --> 00:24:17,653 Find out. 431 00:24:21,523 --> 00:24:22,638 But please, 432 00:24:23,566 --> 00:24:26,837 stop comparing your life to mine. 433 00:24:30,665 --> 00:24:32,841 Stop using Charlie against me. 434 00:24:34,657 --> 00:24:37,525 I'm sorry he was hurt by what happened. 435 00:24:39,322 --> 00:24:42,257 But I never loved him. Not for a day. 436 00:24:44,183 --> 00:24:45,404 I loved David. 437 00:24:48,234 --> 00:24:51,568 So, never talk to me about Charlie again, am I clear? 438 00:25:04,231 --> 00:25:05,734 Please go now, Paul.